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Redrobes
09-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Since we collectively sorted out Torstans tiles on ViewingDale I thought Id have a play to see what I could do with them. So I have used quite a few of them in this map. The only non Torstan tiled bit is that I have applied a mud coloured texture between all the rooms but thats it. Everything else is from his set. Since its just a test this is a finished map.

torstan
09-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Looks good. How easy/hard was it to put together? I'm certainly interested in suggestions you have for improvement.

Steel General
09-30-2009, 07:42 AM
That came out quite nicely.

Redrobes
09-30-2009, 09:16 AM
Thanks, I thought it looked alright too and it was pretty easy to put stuff together. Its a bit fiddly and could do with grouping bits together into a large selection of rooms and corridors etc but I can do that no problem. I found myself reusing the corners and walls a lot.

The only odd bit is that there's two sets of walls, one with the stones on the grid and one with the stones to the side of the grid. I made most of the map with the stones on the grid but when I got to the right hand side and put in the stairs going down then the stairs are full width so you have to switch to stone on side of grid and fill in with stairs in between. I'm guessing that you designed it so that you stick with one or the other but I found that you need to switch to make it work out. I don't think that the issue can be avoided either.

To make the mud texture I took the final map and saved out a big copy then just edited that map into a black and white mask, blurred it a bit and used it as an alpha transparency with a mud texture color image. Then sat it back on top. So that took just a few minutes too.

torstan
09-30-2009, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the note about the stairs. Having the walls on the grid is preferable if there's vision blocking as that can snap to grid but still leave some of the wall exposed.

THe one thing I did notice is that with the torches snapped to grid they look a little like they are floating in mid air. Might be better to have these unsnapped so they can sit flush with the walls.

Redrobes
09-30-2009, 03:29 PM
Thats me being a bit lazy. I can put them anywhere. What they need is a torch sconce :)

Heres a pic of bits were talking about. I have some doors on here too cos we found that a door in the arch looks great and better than a simple door on its own. Also you can open them too.

torstan
09-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Got you. Yes, the doors do look better in the arches - though they do need resized to do that nicely in general. Those pre-composited ones work really well.

As for the walls and the stairs - I place the stairs on the bottom and lay the wall over the top. Ideally the walls have the highest z-ordering of all objects. That gets around the issues, and avoids the issue of stairs being over the wall shadow, or the straight edge of the stairs not quite lining up with the irregular edge of the wall.

Redrobes
09-30-2009, 03:42 PM
Yes that would make sense. ViewingDale does not have user settable Z order. It computes that based on the icon sizes. If you crash two sets of dungeon parts together then it sorts it all out for you which is great but its a restriction in these situations. I might make a 4 square set of steps out of 4 x 1 sqr set then it would correct itself.

torstan
09-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Well you could certainly have a tile with steps and one wall stitched together (which can be flipped to give the other side) and another with the single steps block and a wall on both sides. That should cover most of the scenarios.

Redrobes
09-30-2009, 04:18 PM
There, just put two singles together and they are bigger than a single wall so it sorts it all out now. Its all just getting around to doing it most of the time.

Ill try to make up some rooms and corridors as groupings to use then it should be real quick to make a map with these tiles.

torstan
09-30-2009, 04:28 PM
I'd consider dropping a gradient over the stairs to show the direction of the slope. The dark gradient works best, going dark towards the bottom.

Otherwise looks good. I'd actually ditch the ones that sit alongside the lines as they don't really fill much of a need (though they will work better for you when you place internal walls.

RobA
10-01-2009, 12:39 AM
Here is a simple stair overlay I often use over existing steps.

-Rob A>

maxboy
10-01-2009, 03:12 PM
Hi, This is my first test with Torsten's tiles, took 20 minutes to do it

This map is being used in my D&D game on saturday, the trick to make it fast is to have a sheet with all the wall variations setup to drag and drop onto the map

it's not perfect, but to look good after 20 mins work i'm really happy how it turned out

oh and as my First post :) HI

Steel General
10-01-2009, 03:17 PM
Welcome Aboard maxboy!

Nice little dungeon, great use of Torstan's tiles.

Gidde
10-01-2009, 03:23 PM
That looks great! Welcome to the guild :)

Coyotemax
10-01-2009, 04:03 PM
Maxboy: I'm actually putting together a psd file for photoshop users (might work with gimp too) that drops everything right along 100x100 grid lines.

I've got the walls done right now, I might leave the objects as they are for greater ease in positioning. As soon as I'm done my current map I'll go about making it available for upload.

torstan
10-01-2009, 05:10 PM
Wow, Maxboy that looks great!

Ramah
10-01-2009, 05:25 PM
Maxboy: I'm actually putting together a psd file for photoshop users (might work with gimp too) that drops everything right along 100x100 grid lines.

I've got the walls done right now, I might leave the objects as they are for greater ease in positioning. As soon as I'm done my current map I'll go about making it available for upload.

Man alive... what on earth do you do when you aren't mapping or performing charitable actions for other mappers? :S

Maxboy, that looks really great. I have no idea how on earth these maps are utilised having never played D&D or whatever... well... I played it just once many many years ago with only two other people and there were no maps like this... but I can see this looks really smart. Torstan's tiles must be really good and maybe once CM has done his PSD file I will have a crack at a map like this myself (although as I say... I have no idea what needs to be on them and so people would probably look at it and go... "er... wtf dude... this is the wrong grid for this type of map you mong!")

Anyway... have some rep for posting a really nice map on your first post. :)

maxboy
10-01-2009, 05:50 PM
I really posted these just to show Torsten, that people appreciate his hard work, all my dungeon maps will be done in this style from now on, the plus side i can print them out and use them on the table

The ease of making the maps, is really fantastic

torstan
10-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Wow, that's great. I'm glad you're getting so much use out of them. I guess you could do with a statue and a ladder from that last post.

@Ramah: There's no rules to this other than 1 grid square = 5 feet. Otherwise it's just a matter of mapping indoor spaces you might find monsters in, and that could be anywhere :)

Redrobes
10-01-2009, 06:12 PM
Oh I hope I kicked off a new wave of torstan tiled maps.

Maxboy that map looks great. I see that you have sprayed some light gray into the solid parts of the map which makes me feel a bit justified in trying that one. I think it works well. I was looking to see whether you used on the grid or by the grid walls but I cant make it out cos some are more on and some are less on so I take it that you did not have a snap to grid thing on when you made it. Also you must have scaled up or down some of the icons too cos the pit looks great and the 45deg walls too. I liked the use of the spiral stairs and in your map I see how that one with the wall across it works as I didn't quite get what that was all about from looking at the tile in isolation.

Thanks for the gradient Rob, I used a normal torstan one on the initial map on the right and scaled one up double size for the one next to my pit. I thought that the wall there is trapped and the floor would suddenly drop into a sliding chute down to the pit edge >:)

I know we don't have too many ViewingDale mappers here but I wondered if anyone else was going to use it to make a similar map. I should add that when I am making the map I put a few loose icons on the map and clone them off as I need them or I can steal a clone of any bit that already been placed so it is pretty quick stuff. These tiles do make a dungeon build quite rapid !

Redrobes
10-01-2009, 06:15 PM
Hang on a mo... where did those round alcoves come from ??? I think were missing some tiles :o

torstan
10-01-2009, 06:23 PM
You're not. I believe that some warping has gone on.

I didn't do round alcoves because you need one tile for every radius of curve - which is a lot.

I'm certainly interested in the way these are being used.

Redrobes
10-01-2009, 06:53 PM
Ahh, been checking real thoroughly and I can see that I/we are missing some. The hex alcoves weren't in the zip and I can see that a bit of warping on them made the round alcoves. Whats interesting is that unless there's more not on this site then some of the straight walls in maxboys map are from bits of those hex alcoves too which is odd (I see the diag wall tiles now doh !). So his map has really helped out a lot in showing up those missing images.

torstan
10-01-2009, 07:13 PM
Um, hex alcoves?

The newest version is always available on the site (http://www.fantasticmaps.com/Downloads.html).

maxboy
10-01-2009, 09:24 PM
Yeah, the first map was basically the first time i have put together a map with the tiles, so i wasn't really worried about getting it exactly right

I needed some alcoves for monsters to jump out of :)

icosahedron
10-02-2009, 07:04 AM
Yeah, yeah, I can take a hint about Viewingdale users, Redrobes. ;)

I got some ideas when I was helping to convert these tiles - I'll get around to trying out some of this excellent material sooner or later, I'm just up to my eyes in other Drawing stuff, Gaming stuff and RL stuff just now.

I wanted to try these tiles to make my Ice Tower, but it would mean a complete redraw and they're not quite 'white' enough. I'm still arguing with myself about how important the colour is and whether I can work a 'fix'.

Statues would be good, Torstan, especially gargoyles.

Those circles look great, Maxboy, how did you do that? Can I do it in Gimp? Got a tut?
If I'm gonna do that castle, I need some 30ft round towers, and the ability to morph straight walls to reimport into Viewingdale would be great!

Coyotemax
10-02-2009, 08:34 AM
Colour should be easy to fix, if you want ice. Just desaturate them, then give them a bluish tint, i would think :)

Redrobes
10-02-2009, 09:12 AM
Those alcoves are great. Thanks for posting.


Yeah, yeah, I can take a hint about Viewingdale users, Redrobes. ;)LOL, its not just you. I had a few people asking for me to fix up the set into an easy download and the moment I posted it, everything went quiet... I am sure they are being used tho. I'll have to do a second wrap up and also add more icon files to cover different orientations and some groupings as well.

torstan
10-02-2009, 09:30 AM
I think an ice tower might be a little tricky with these tiles... But I'm going to be working on an ice setting (http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=7262) very soon (see what I did there :) ) so you never know your luck. Equally, Coyote's idea is worth a try, but I think they'll look a little strange.

Those alcoves are great. I'd certainly be interested in knowing how you made those.

RobA
10-02-2009, 11:36 AM
I took a play with maxboy's map:

17303

Doing a colourize, levels manip, then running the free "mezzoforce ice" filter on it (google for "mezzoforce ice plugin" for downloads as the original author site seems gone).

Fairly good ice for little effort, imoo!

-Rob A>

torstan
10-02-2009, 11:48 AM
Wow! That's really cool. I'll have a look at that filter.

I'll admit that it came out a lot better than I had expected.

Steel General
10-02-2009, 01:15 PM
That is cool (no pun intended) - Mezzoforce also have Snow & Metal plugins. But I couldn't download them at work. :(

icosahedron
10-03-2009, 06:41 AM
Sorry guys, 'Ice Tower' is a bit of a misnomer. It's a castle built of white stone in the Frozen North, so these tiles would only need a slight colour tweak, unfortunately there are only two ways of doing it - I could go RobA's way of recolouring a whole map after drawing, or recolour each tile before importing into Viewingdale - both have disadvantages.

I'm quite sure I'll use these tiles - particularly the generic stuff like lightsources, but maybe not just yet. I'm sure a good many maps will appear over time with these tiles in them, from many users.

Anyway, nuff from me, this ain't my thread. :)

Redrobes
10-03-2009, 01:53 PM
Anyway, nuff from me, this ain't my thread. :)Nah go for it. Treat this thread as finished maps about torstans tiles and suggestions for maps made with them more than my particular map. Mine was just a test map. If by some natter we can make them better then its all good stuff.

In terms of ice, I think post processing the map is better than getting a full second set of changed tile images.

icosahedron
10-03-2009, 02:34 PM
A useful thing for anyone using the set for fantasy castle building, might be a means of creating thicker walls. Mine are ten feet thick and ten storeys high, for example. Rubble between two skins wouldn't rise that high, and the only other way I can think of is to lay up several walls in parallel.
Not sure how many others would need it though.

Post-processing might be the way to go for different shades, cos there's the dark castle too. :)

Redrobes
10-03-2009, 02:42 PM
I think that's a good call. You can have two walls 5 or 10ft apart but it would be good to have a V shape for arrow slits and windows which bridge two wall sections. Perhaps wall sections with crenelated tops. Most of a castle is in the set tho and with a very small extra few I think castles would be covered. I might try having a pop at doing some castle with them later and see whats easy and whats not so easy.

icosahedron
10-07-2009, 06:22 AM
C'mon Maxboy, how did you make those walls circular? I'm just itching to know how it's done. :)

maxboy
10-07-2009, 10:55 PM
Its really Easy to do

just a lot of fiddly stuff, that's all done by visually guessing if you have warped it enough
and placing the tiles together at the end is all based on how it looks to you

icosahedron
10-08-2009, 06:34 AM
Thanks Maxboy. :)

Edit>Transform>Warp. You don't say if that's Gimp you're using, but if not I'm sure Gimp will do something similar. I'll have a play with that, first chance I get. :)

Obviously they can't be scaled, cos the size of the stones would be wrong, so it'll mean drawing them out individually at different radii, but I only have to make one quarter circle at each radius, X and Y flips will take care of the rest. A bit of pi D / 4 and hey presto, circular towers. :)

torstan
10-08-2009, 09:18 AM
That's a neat little trick. One more photoshop trick that I need to learn!

Ascension
10-08-2009, 05:42 PM
Dang, I don't have warp in my old CS.

Steel General
10-08-2009, 06:06 PM
Dang, I don't have warp in my old CS.

Sounds like time for an upgrade :D

icosahedron
10-09-2009, 06:33 AM
Hmm I had time for only a brief play, but Gimp doesn't seem to have an equivalent function (not that my noob skills can find, anyway) but I got a similar effect using Filters>Distort>Polar coordinates.

Unfortunately it seems to distort the stones into what amounts to a string of sausages, and I didn't have time to blow the thing up to see if it was a problem on a higher zoom. The ratio of wall length to image length determines how much of a full circle it makes.

I wonder if I'd have any better luck with Inkscape?

Of course, if Torstan's gonna play with circular walls, I could always sit and wait... ;)