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Notsonoble
11-06-2009, 05:20 PM
Getting closer to a completed scenerio, so I needed a map of the area I want to put it in... I also wanted to start on maps the characters would see.

Here's the start...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o107/Notsonoble/southernbeledirap.png

I'll be attaching it as I get further along, for some reason it didn't want to attach here...

Steel General
11-06-2009, 06:12 PM
I like the land mass shape. You might consider mixing up the various mountain shapes you're using so that you don't have a bunch of the same ones all grouped together.

Notsonoble
11-06-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm using brushes that are currently under a non-comm share alike to get an idea of what I'm looking at... I'll be resketching all the mountains (in a similar fashion) later, but yes diversity in the mountains will be a good thing.

Notsonoble
11-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Yay, this scale is finally large enough that a mile is more than a pixel long... it's not much more but it means I can put rivers on and not have people go "are your rivers really 10 miles wide O_o?"

Here's the next step....

Notsonoble
11-09-2009, 04:40 PM
So at 3000px square, if I just scale up directly from the continental map I took it from a mile is 1.6 pixels... so can I get away with rounding that up to 2px? Or is that too big a discrepancy to explain away?

Notsonoble
11-09-2009, 05:48 PM
I decided it could be off especially if the map was a little on the old side... I forgot to apply the fade filter to the text but here's the next step.

Juggernaut1981
11-09-2009, 06:25 PM
Either there is some funky stuff going on with the topography around your "top forest & little lake" or the River Police are going to have your ass.

Thoughts...

Rivers are too smooth, unless this land is on a 45 degree slope
Get advice from the River Police
Make the "blurb" part of the Cartouche smaller... you lose the title of the place

Notsonoble
11-09-2009, 06:34 PM
At least part of the problem is the north edge of the map lined up with a mountain range when I grabbed from the larger section. I've been contemplating moving up the map a tad to make the range visible, but I've got so little room before cutting off the that southern most peninsula...

But I am sorta hopping they'll show up soon.

Smooth issues I've noticed... I haven't applied any jitter to their paths yet...

Thanks on the text by the way... I'm trying to figure out what to do there... at 300ppi though I can't go any smaller with the blurb... unless I stretch the box over that little island (which is rather un-important to the cartographer or his commissioner at the time in-setting)...

Notsonoble
11-09-2009, 07:26 PM
For reference here's where I'm working it's kinda hard to see since the scaling up... but the Doraxia / Pangazstan follows that dark line in the forrest on the northern edge...

I could use some help placing rivers... but that boarder is supposed to be set by either a river or group of rivers...and the lake's not visible in this because its just the flat scale from http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=6758...

The lake could move a little bit... sessions and planning have left me "needing" a lake in Doraxia... so far the most detailed location is "edge of the woods"

That huge lake in tornya is an effect from scaling my original map to make the beledira map. I almost wiped it out on the beledira map... but since it's visible in the world map (way back)... *shrug"

Noon
11-10-2009, 02:55 PM
The coastline is pleasant.
I'm not fan of the rivers, they seem too straight.

Notsonoble
11-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Okay, here's the boarders copied and scaled from the continental map (the xcf for it is on a different comp than the one for this map, and I kept forgetting to take a copy)

The line style is not final by any means... but where the lines are is pretty much set. So knowing that... would the western doraxia boarder (highlighted) be valid as a single river from the off map northern mountain range? Or am I gonna need some springs and such.

Note the forest is higher than the empty land but out of the mountains... The original world map I started with didn't generate much in the way of topology... so I have been trying to make a lot of decisions as I go... I haven't decided if it slopes... or if some where along the way it just drops off...

Notsonoble
11-10-2009, 07:04 PM
Rivers, round two, fight!

Steel General
11-11-2009, 06:51 AM
For the eastern-most river since there is adequate space between the tree symbols, I would have it wind its way through them rather than go over top of them.

Notsonoble
11-11-2009, 03:05 PM
For the eastern-most river since there is adequate space between the tree symbols, I would have it wind its way through them rather than go over top of them.

Thanks for the catch... aside from that do they behave well?

Steel General
11-11-2009, 04:07 PM
They look OK to me...

Notsonoble
11-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Alrighty... time to go back and clean up the mountains and trees then... does anyone have a suggestion on how to show some lowering of ground level as you leave that northern forest? The actual mountain range stops a ways north... but I think I want the forest to mark the edge before a valley... here's a rough highlighter markover... obviously it gets all the way to sea level at the edges, and there's a lot of play in a "highlighter mark" that's 10 miles wide...:P

Suggestions (both about how to mark it on this style of map, and if they should be adjusted) welcome in fact, they're begged for!

Juggernaut1981
11-11-2009, 04:43 PM
Just been looking more closely at the Cartouche. One of the things that does happen often is the "Map Title" is in a very elaborate style but the notes (of all sorts) tend to be plain, excluding the names of nobles (you need to stroke the ego of the people paying you). I'd be doing it something like below, the cyan parts would be ELABORATE fonts (to the point of only just being functionally readable) and the brown would be detailed but plain. It will almost look like older University Degrees (especially from the Traditional Insitutions: Cambridge, Oxford, Yale, USydney, etc).

Map of Southern Beledira
As commissioned by
[Lady] Janice Doraxis
on the third day of Jelenis in the 1550th year of Our Freedom

Juggernaut1981
11-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Alrighty... time to go back and clean up the mountains and trees then... does anyone have a suggestion on how to show some lowering of ground level as you leave that northern forest? The actual mountain range stops a ways north... but I think I want the forest to mark the edge before a valley... here's a rough highlighter markover...

Okay, I don't think there is currently any good reason for the trees NOT to go into the valley. It's harder for trees to end up "uphill" than "downhill". Trees tend to have heavier seeds, so when they fall they aren't blown far and are usually transported by animals (or just roll down a slope). Consequently you will find bald hills, but rarely find trees "stopping" just cause they get to a valley.

If you are going to have them stop at the valley, then I'd recommend that you have a LOT of settlements through the valley. Villages should dot the place and there should be a couple of decent trade hubs, probably one fortified harbour city, 2 or 3 fortified trading towns, 6-8 small towns/large villages along major roads and at intersections.

A lot of settlements in the valley also means you will need a decent water supply, which probably means diverting one of your rivers. The "western river" would probably then need to run into the Forest Lake, out towards the east a bit, hit the "bottom of the valley" and then run along the bottom of the valley to the bay in the west. Doing this implies that there will basically by a small row of small hills in the east, probably just west of the large lake near the large Eastern bay. It can be used to justify the shape of that bay and the headland poking into the bay. Note: that lake should drain into the bay or just become part of the bay - no big issue one way or the other, but it will almost definately be brackish so fresh water for settlements will come from the river and not the lake.

If you wanted you could seriously deviate the river and make it run through the forest lake, down to the other forest and along near the mountains, gathering the mountains runoff and wandering across the potentially wide valley floor near the Western Bay.

Politically, someone will have conquered this area... the farmlands would be too valuable not to have an elaborate government, small standing army, a few knights errant (to protect highways, travel amongst remote villages, etc) and so on. Think to include highway taxes, trade tariffs and having some powerful trading, haulage and agricultural guilds.

[/end Thesis on Map Changes]

Notsonoble
11-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Okay, I don't think there is currently any good reason for the trees NOT to go into the valley. It's harder for trees to end up "uphill" than "downhill". Trees tend to have heavier seeds, so when they fall they aren't blown far and are usually transported by animals (or just roll down a slope). Consequently you will find bald hills, but rarely find trees "stopping" just cause they get to a valley.


I can see this... and the zones of low vs high haven't had huge amounts of thought yet... so moving them isn't anything end of the world like (that lake really should be in the "low zone" anyway...



If you are going to have them stop at the valley, then I'd recommend that you have a LOT of settlements through the valley. Villages should dot the place and there should be a couple of decent trade hubs, probably one fortified harbour city, 2 or 3 fortified trading towns, 6-8 small towns/large villages along major roads and at intersections.


Doraxia has a pop a little over 11 million based on a fantasy demographics article, and 5 cities over 100K people... I've been trying to figure out where to put a lot of them... this helps.


A lot of settlements in the valley also means you will need a decent water supply, which probably means diverting one of your rivers. The "western river" would probably then need to run into the Forest Lake, out towards the east a bit, hit the "bottom of the valley" and then run along the bottom of the valley to the bay in the west. Doing this implies that there will basically by a small row of small hills in the east, probably just west of the large lake near the large Eastern bay. It can be used to justify the shape of that bay and the headland poking into the bay. Note: that lake should drain into the bay or just become part of the bay - no big issue one way or the other, but it will almost definitely be brackish so fresh water for settlements will come from the river and not the lake.

If you wanted you could seriously deviate the river and make it run through the forest lake, down to the other forest and along near the mountains, gathering the mountains runoff and wandering across the potentially wide valley floor near the Western Bay.

Is diverting the only option? I've always kinda felt that the few I have on there are not really enough, but I'm having a hard time finding sources for them...


Politically, someone will have conquered this area... the farmlands would be too valuable not to have an elaborate government, small standing army, a few knights errant (to protect highways, travel amongst remote villages, etc) and so on. Think to include highway taxes, trade tariffs and having some powerful trading, haulage and agricultural guilds.

[/end Thesis on Map Changes]

I almost got into a lot of detail here, lets just say that that's actually kinda similar to what happened.

Notsonoble
11-11-2009, 06:57 PM
Just been looking more closely at the Cartouche. One of the things that does happen often is the "Map Title" is in a very elaborate style but the notes (of all sorts) tend to be plain, excluding the names of nobles (you need to stroke the ego of the people paying you). I'd be doing it something like below, the cyan parts would be ELABORATE fonts (to the point of only just being functionally readable) and the brown would be detailed but plain. It will almost look like older University Degrees (especially from the Traditional Insitutions: Cambridge, Oxford, Yale, USydney, etc).

Map of Southern Beledira
As commissioned by
[Lady] Janice Doraxis
on the third day of Jelenis in the 1550th year of Our Freedom


nvm I completely missread this...

Juggernaut1981
11-11-2009, 07:27 PM
I can see this... and the zones of low vs high haven't had huge amounts of thought yet... so moving them isn't anything end of the world like (that lake really should be in the "low zone" anyway...

Doraxia has a pop a little over 11 million based on a fantasy demographics article, and 5 cities over 100K people... I've been trying to figure out where to put a lot of them... this helps.

Is diverting the only option? I've always kinda felt that the few I have on there are not really enough, but I'm having a hard time finding sources for them...


RE: City populations
To get a feel for what everything should look/feel like... your big Harbour City would be Paris or Hamburg in the 1400s. (Unless you're going to add all sorts of magical constructions and sanitation)

RE: Diverting
To support the kinds of population you're talking about, there will need to be a pile of water sources. Most of the "local water sources" will be local creeks and streams that flow into your major river, but the river needs to drain and ANY river will head to the bottom of a valley and head to the sea. (unless you're in Australia where a bunch of them just drain into the Great Artesian Basin underground). So assuming a "European" climate, your "river visible at the scale of a nation" will head into the bottom of the nearby valley and stay basically at the bottom.

Notsonoble
11-11-2009, 07:48 PM
RE: City populations
To get a feel for what everything should look/feel like... your big Harbour City would be Paris or Hamburg in the 1400s. (Unless you're going to add all sorts of magical constructions and sanitation)

RE: Diverting
To support the kinds of population you're talking about, there will need to be a pile of water sources. Most of the "local water sources" will be local creeks and streams that flow into your major river, but the river needs to drain and ANY river will head to the bottom of a valley and head to the sea. (unless you're in Australia where a bunch of them just drain into the Great Artesian Basin underground). So assuming a "European" climate, your "river visible at the scale of a nation" will head into the bottom of the nearby valley and stay basically at the bottom.

I think you missed my question... could I get more than the three rivers from the northern off map mountain range, and could I get more than just the one from the southern range...

Also, I may have screwed the pooch completely anyway... looking at the world map, the equator runs pretty well along the middle of the Cartouche...

Juggernaut1981
11-12-2009, 05:20 PM
You could potentially get more, they probably just won't appear on a map this scale. Nobody cares about creeks you can jump over, except the locals.