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View Full Version : *** January2010 Challenge Voting - Up and Down the Scales ***



Redrobes
01-26-2010, 08:14 PM
Right then ! This month the challenge was as follows:

"This months challenge is where you must make a map which fits into one or more other existing maps on the guild. The idea is to make either a small part of someone else map like a building in a city and map that building or to use the other persons map as a small part of your entry. I.e. you take somebody's village and make a regional map with lots of villages on it one of which is the reference map.

Ideally you could map something which has both an existing larger and a smaller map and bridge the two with your entry. I.e. find a house and a regional map and make a town in that region with the house somewhere in the town."

and we have a good turnout of 10 entrants of which Torstan has withdrawn due to him selling his entry !!! A winner already. So with 9 entrants that means this month you get to vote for just the one selection.

as the voting should be based on:

"Voting should be based on the general quality of the map but also should take into account the continuity of the reference maps too."

and that second bit is a little difficult to visualize so this month I have a complete set of movies for those of you who wish to check how well their maps scaled with the references. The videos are in XviD format so a player like MediaPlayer or VLC (freeware download for multiple OS'es) should be ok.

Djekspek (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Djek.avi)
Immolate (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Imm.avi)
Jaxilon (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Jax.avi)
PlumCrazy (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Plum.avi)
Sapiento (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Sap.avi)
Tear (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Tear.avi)
Xyll (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Xyl.avi)
ZarPeter (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/Zar.avi)
industrygothica (http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/Temp/CG/General/Jan10_Vids/IG.avi)

Don't forget to check out the Thumbnails (http://www.cartographersguild.com/utilities/Thumbs/Html/Challengers_Jan10.htm) too.

Voting will close at end of month which is 5 days from now. Make sure you REP your favorite entries. May the best third of you win ! If we have a draw in the top 3 then we may have to have a special one day vote off or something.

ravells
01-26-2010, 08:17 PM
A poll would be nice :) ... or is it broken with the upgrade? :(

I like the videos!! :)

Redrobes
01-26-2010, 08:23 PM
No it just took me a while but I am not seeing the close date on it - maybe thats not visible with the new upgrade ??. It should be end of month are you able to check or edit it so that there is an end time for it ?

ravells
01-26-2010, 08:30 PM
Cant see the poll details on the edit, I'm afraid...

So hard....but I went with Plum Crazy's entry. The pic in the thumbnails doesn't do the actual plan map justice.

No need to check PM's found it. There is a box saying close poll after ... text box.. days. So I put in 4 days which will close it on 31st Jan.

Ramah
01-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Gah! So many great entries to choose from. I think I'm going to have to sleep on it. For me it's a toss-up between Immolate, Tear and Industrygothica... or maybe one of the others. Gah!

Jaxilon
01-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Those vids are great! I was afraid to watch mine though :)

I think I'll chew on these for a bit before I cast my vote however. There are some really nice entries to choose from.

I for one want to make sure and say thank you to Redrobes for putting the vids together. I know this is kind of what your software does but it still had to take time to put it all together. So thank you for that.

I also want to express appreciation for your basically sponsoring the event this month by putting up the prizes.

It goes without saying but I will say it anyway, thanks to the entire Cartographer's Guild for being such a cool place to hang out.

ROFL...I'm starting to sound like one of those award ceremonies: "Thank you to all the little people who are down there to stand on..no wait, that can't be right!"

Redrobes
01-26-2010, 08:55 PM
I took the images for the vids from earlier tonight and took quite a while to get them all in scale and matched up as best as I could. The codec goes a bit psychedelic at times tho no idea why. The original captures looked great but at 800Mb each I didn't think that was a goer :twisted:

Djekspek
01-26-2010, 09:59 PM
argh, i feel like a 10 year old in a candy store... so many great entries. And great video's by RedRobes as well (nicely done)... All maps are stunning so I looked for the continuity to the reference map which made me vote for Sapiento's. cheers

a2area
01-26-2010, 10:12 PM
arrgggh.. this is really hard.. i like having 2 to pick.. i had to go with sapiento's map because ... just 'cause.. it fit perfectly and had many references from the main map.. although it's not hard to find an outline of florida laying around (0:
I had several other favorites though.. Jaxilion, yours was a perfect fit too and i salivate when i see Djekspek's sketching.. so, yeah.. Good Job everyone!
I suppose I'll have to try one of these challenges sometime. (scaredy-cat)

Brian

...actually that darn feather quill almost pushed me over the edge!

mearrin69
01-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Totally awesome entries this time around. Some that really stood out to me were the ones from Djekspek, Sapiento, Industry Gothica, and Immolate. Hard choice between then but I've got to go with Sapiento for consistency (yeah, I know they're both his), for attractiveness, and for giving me another dose of that sweet, sweet post-apocalyptic love. I want to play a game in that world for sure. I don't suppose you'd care to detail the Pacific Northwest for us someday? :)

I'm on a mega-slow wireless network at a hotel right now but rep all around when I get back home to decent access speeds!
M

Jaxilon
01-26-2010, 11:27 PM
I agree, it would be fun to play in Sep's world. Ever want to set up a VTT and have a go I'd sign up.

Coyotemax
01-27-2010, 02:44 AM
The scaling video was brilliant!

I had to go with Fort Locust by Xyll - with the multiple levels on the main map, that really brought it home to me, and the video really pulled it through - with the extra levels it really showed off the zoomability :)

That was the telling point for me, or I probably would have spent another day or two deciding :) everyone's maps were wonderful, excellent entries from all!

Ramah
01-27-2010, 07:05 AM
Ok, having thought about it I'm gonna go for Immolate's map. It's beautiful and there is a lot of work tat has gone into it. I didn't go for Industrygothica's map (and the same for Sapiento's) because they did a regional of their own maps when the rules seem to state (at least as far as I am concerned) that it should be someone else's map. Seems a bit of a cop-out to just blow up a section of your own work. I discounted Djekspek's beautiful piece from my vote this time because I just don't see it as a map. Just a rather lovely picture of a city. No labels, points of interest or anything.
Tear's entry is beautiful but I like the way Immolate is constantly trying new styles so in the end he got my vote. :)

Good luck to all the entrants.

Redrobes
01-27-2010, 09:02 AM
...they did a regional of their own maps when the rules seem to state (at least as far as I am concerned) that it should be someone else's map.Well the idea was to try and bridge other peoples maps and fit in with other peoples styles because thats kinda what we have to do when we expand the CWBP and what happens when a publisher asks for a map commission but the question was asked and clarified that they could use their own map so long as the reference map existed before the challenge started.

Robbie
01-27-2010, 09:29 AM
I believe this is our first large scale poll with the new software, so I'll be watching it for "issues" - The lack of a closing date being visible is one of those issues.

Ramah
01-27-2010, 10:04 AM
Well the idea was to try and bridge other peoples maps and fit in with other peoples styles because thats kinda what we have to do when we expand the CWBP and what happens when a publisher asks for a map commission but the question was asked and clarified that they could use their own map so long as the reference map existed before the challenge started.

Yeah, I saw that. But I still think it defeats the spirit of this challenge, hence my discounting those entries from my own personal vote.

Zar Peter
01-27-2010, 10:40 AM
So, great videos, thanks Redrobes. I was a bit scared how my map would fit in but I was quite satisfied about the outcome.
My vote went to Industrygothica because I liked the map best and it was very good matching, too. But it was a very close race with Immolate and Sapiento.

For me it was a great experience and I learned an awful lot about making city maps. The contest was the main reason I finally decided to work on this city and it's better than I hoped it will be. It's lacking a lot still, though, for instance a legend for interesting places and so on.

And just wanted to ask: If the rule is that you get 1 map to vote for every 5 entries shouldn't you get 2 votes in this competition? From my point of view this is: 1-5 = 1 vote, 6-10= 2 votes, 11-15 = 3 votes and so on...

Redrobes
01-27-2010, 02:44 PM
I think the way you describe it would be better but we have gone with this for a while its 1 vote per 5 entrants rounded down. The overlap of about a quarter or fifth of the votes has broken some deadlocks in the past. When there is one vote and two strong contenders then many people get no votes at all which is discouraging and also in cases like this one where getting second and third place is pretty important too then your second vote makes a lot of difference in challenges where there is one obvious leader (which its not this time).

In challenges past there has been about 50 or so people voting and between 9 entrants like this then we might see leaders getting about 8 - 10 but it drops off steep so that second and third is harder to split. When you have 50 casting 3 votes each then 150 votes gives a more even spread. In fact I reckon 9 is the worst number to have to get a good spread as its the most you can have with one vote to get the sample. Hopefully a lot of people will vote then it will be alright and give a good spread curve.

Gandwarf
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Vids seem to be down at the moment? Getting an error.
Some very, very nice entries and it was so hard to pick one... *shakes head*

I had to go with Djekspek again. I think his work is amazing and I love the handdrawn feel. Also I took the liberty to edit the poll and correct his name ;)
I can't stress enough the choice was really hard to make. At least half the entries was amazing.

Vorhees
01-27-2010, 07:05 PM
Wow this is Hard, Awesome work done there guys and Redrobes those vidieo's are sweet , they are showing just what a good job these guys did, well done mate.

Rythal
01-27-2010, 09:39 PM
Grats Djekspek, you got my vote. Props to Tear and Sap for being close contenders imo.

arkor
01-27-2010, 10:04 PM
Some really good maps there. I especially like Djekspek's.

Sapiento
01-28-2010, 01:59 AM
I went for industrygothica's map. It's is clean and has the same style as the base map, which was an important point for me.
But is was a hard choice. Djekspek's map for example is really beautiful, had there been a description or a legend, my vote had perhaps gone for this map. But so it is 'only' a very well drawn city. In my opinion some sort of legend is crucial to turn a picture into a map.

Immolate
01-28-2010, 08:21 AM
Redrobes... your movies were teh awesome!!! I recommend giving yourself a 15% raise and a corner office. I think you've outperformed the rest of us!

Djekspek finally earned my vote with this, his mappiest of maps. I've always found his work to be fascinating and the rate of technical improvement is beyond belief. I really love it and I believe he really earned my vote this time. I didn't follow the WIP closely, or I could have offered some criticism, and that's my fault. One of the side effects of going back to school is that you have to sacrifice other things. One of those has been my level of participation on this forum, which I miss terribly.

Rep for all of you as I can and thank you for such a generous expenditure of your time to elevate and enrich the community, contestants.

Redrobes
01-30-2010, 08:48 PM
We have a winner !!! Or three in fact.

Well done Djekspek your ISO style artwork is truly beautiful. And Sapiento and industrygothica are taking home a copy of my app too. Both of your maps were very well correlated with your reference maps. So let me know if you want an installer download or a CD box through the post. I will have to release a big download of Ansium and the as yet unnamed CWBP world with all the maps on including these new ones in VDale format so you guys can have a play with it.

Well done to everyone who entered and don't be disheartened by not winning. I thought some of the less well voted entries were worth more than their vote count suggests. Maybe we should round 1/5th the number of votes cast per person to nearest instead of rounding down and then it might have reflected that better. Getting scale right and making seamless maps is quite a difficult thing to do.

Now I have to go and see about getting Djek a gold challenge medal...

EDIT -- I have just realized... you joined Aug 09 took on the light challenge and won it then went onto the main challenge and won each of them in turn. Three in a row an unprecedented feat. You have 4 wins matching Rob and GPs 4 tho they have all gold ones but thats because as a gold winner you cant enter the light challenge. But all in succession - yikes ! :o It will be interesting to see what you achieve with your new toy !

industrygothica
01-30-2010, 09:15 PM
We have a winner !!! Or three in fact.

Well done Djekspek your ISO style artwork is truly beautiful. And Sapiento and industrygothica are taking home a copy of my app too. Both of your maps were very well correlated with your reference maps. So let me know if you want an installer download or a CD box through the post. I will have to release a big download of Ansium and the as yet unnamed CWBP world with all the maps on including these new ones in VDale format so you guys can have a play with it.

Well done to everyone who entered and don't be disheartened by not winning. I thought some of the less well voted entries were worth more than their vote count suggests. Maybe we should round 1/5th the number of votes cast per person to nearest instead of rounding down and then it might have reflected that better. Getting scale right and making seamless maps is quite a difficult thing to do.

Now I have to go and see about getting Djek a gold challenge medal...

Thanks... I look forward to playing with ViewingDale. Personally I'd rather a boxed copy if it's cool with you. Should I just PM you the address?

Thanks again for sponsoring, it was a great challenge. And congrats to djekspek on his THIRD WIN IN A ROW!!

Jaxilon
01-30-2010, 10:36 PM
Congrats to our three winners. Very good work. I was so uncertain of who to vote for that I actually procrastinated long enough that I missed the vote! LOL

I mean there was the gorgeous entry by Dj which basically blew out the stops.
Sap's, well, you couldn't find anything wrong with that and it made me want to play some post-apocalyptic rpg.
IG's also was spot on and looked cut from the same mold as the original. Nicely done.
Immolate's was a superb entry and fit perfectly into the map it was set for. The most perfect imo.
Plum's was a fantastic layout and the way he displayed it enhanced it even more. As far as buildings go I think you showed the right way to do it. I plan on stealing as much of that as I can.
Tear's entry was practically a perfect example and gorgeously colored in a way that indicated what was going in within the land. What's not to love on his entry?
Xyll's I thought was another excellent example of how to create a zoom in of an area and he actually had the 3 layers down which, while encouraged in the rules, most of us seemed to have missed. Congrats on going the extra mile and getting that right. To me your vid showed the full 3 levels better than anyone's.
Zar P's was another strong entry and definitely a worthy contender which if he's like me that's all he really needs..
As for mine, well, about all I can say is that while I'm happy with it, it's still not what I saw in my minds eye. I attribute that to my lack of skills/experience with the software and know how in mapping such a setting. I had never tried to create such an alive place as a market.That said, however, I spent enough time on this that I think I should have crushed you all, muahahahaha. :)

In the end, I am very happy for all the winners and look forward to the next time I enter a challenge. I learned a lot and I like that fact that the challenge creates a deadline that you can practice your skills against. Anyone who in interested in doing this for a real customer should jump in on these challenges. I think it's good practice. Heck, you could end up like Torstan and sell your entries before they even get to be voted on!

Also, when there is only 1 vote per person I think there is no shame in getting 0-1 votes because all it takes is one clear dominator to suck up all the votes. Dj, you vote hog! ROFL.

Congratulations guys! I think everyone did a fantastic job and the winners are all very well deserving.

There is one thing I am wondering about regarding my own entry. I think it would be cool if when I was done creating a map like this that it could be used in a VTT setting.....can anyone tell me what I can do better for this to be true? Maybe it's Apples and Oranges but it seems like it should work for more than just something nice to look at. I know that for a VTT it's probably better to have more detailed interiors to move around in, but if you wanted to use my map in a VTT and walk down the streets, would it work and if not, why? I'd rather create 2 birds with one stone...oh wait, that's the opposite of what you try to do, hehe. I think you know what I mean though.

About the only concern I had for this contest as it progressed was that I did not want others to come along and say, "Good grief, what was this guy thinking?", whenever they saw my entry. While I didn't care if I sucked it up and embarrassed myself I did not really want to look completely without a clue. Now that I've tried it, all I can say to those of you who are hesitating, (a2area) :) is to give it a shot. If you find that your idea failed utterly and is so atrocious that it should not be seen even in the light of day you can always withdraw. However, if you do go through with it, you would certainly be an inspiration for others who are unsure of themselves and you will most likely find that you learn a lot doing these challenges. Besides, a2area, I've seen your work and I'm pretty sure you don't have anything to worry about.

See you all in the next round because you only loose if you quit.

Sapiento
01-31-2010, 01:54 AM
Congrats to djekspek and industrygothica! Fine maps, indeed.
I'd prefer a CD Box if possible, Redrobes. Shall I PM my adress?

ravells
01-31-2010, 05:33 AM
Congrats Dj! another fantastic map!!!

Djekspek
01-31-2010, 06:54 AM
wow! I really feel honored that again many liked my work. I stumbled around a lot on this one and was pretty frustrated and about to quit the challenge. I'm glad I stayed in as in the end I had loads of fun creating this and learned a lot during the process. I think all the etries were gems so all thanks for entering! Of course also gratz to Sapiento and IG on their new toy! Oh... and indeed I'll be playing around with the new toy myself :D (RR, thanks for sponsoring this challenge with your app, btw I prefer an installer download) cheers!

Redrobes
01-31-2010, 10:31 AM
I have sent some PMs and ill set up the download and the whole of Ansium so far. Post usually takes a few days so bear with me for a while and let me know if you get them through ok. Maybe I should start a VDale tut thread too - I have been promising people that for years now.

Ascension
01-31-2010, 11:37 AM
That would be a great idea. I've had it sitting on my pc for all this time and never cracked it open (blush).

industrygothica
02-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I have sent some PMs and ill set up the download and the whole of Ansium so far. Post usually takes a few days so bear with me for a while and let me know if you get them through ok. Maybe I should start a VDale tut thread too - I have been promising people that for years now.

Yes, a tutorial would definitely come in handy.