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Meridius
02-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Unfortunately, I do not have a WIP for this map. After I sent Matrim here, he told me I should get my map on here... Even though I think it's

The map is completely in Dutch, with Dutch-sounding names. May be a bit hard on the average English tongue and throat :P (topicname is Dutch too: "Oostangelt and the Forbidden Pass", I haven't thought up a decent English equivalent for 'Oostangelt' yet)

On the map are the County of Oostangelt in a country called Bern. The Verboden Pas (Forbidden Pass) is also on this map because I didn't want two separate maps. Just imagine some random map-drawing peasant had the funky idea to draw exactly what the PC's need before they told him ;)

A bit of mission back-story: The players of my D&D campaign are on a mission to get to Khaz Dukar (extreme north on the map, land of the Dwarves), unfortunately, due to insane amounts of 'Pirates' most skippers won't take their ships out. The PC's bargained a trip on a ship from the west of the country to the east, the skipper and crew wanted to go home, and the PC's where to provide security. But now the only viable route is walking... through the 'Verboden Pas', which isn't a very inviting place judging by the name. They've heard of a way to go OVER it though. They came into Oostangelt near the village of 'Gammelbrug' (Which would be something like 'Ramshacklebridge' in English :)).

There aren't many villages, towns and cities on this map yet, since I haven't thought them up yet ;) The county is divided in Baronies. Each barony may have more than one town/village in it. But those are still not found in the chaos that is my brain. I've mainly bothered with those I could think up.

I may or may not eventually produce a world map, but I found that drawing maps is QUITE time consuming, (took me a good 30 hours I guess). I absolutely LOVE building this world, but I have to watch out not to overdo it since I still have to create adventures too :P

The towns, cities and villages are probably oversized. I mainly copied Pasis' style and textures, so at first I didn't really think this was worth posting. Matrim convinced me to do so anyway.

Things I've learned:
- There's no such thing as 'high resolution'. As big as I thought this map was (and my computer agrees), I would almost say it's too small. But I fear my computer will explode in a huge fireball if I push it any further...
- Map making takes cartloads of time.
- Textures make or break a map (so I used Pasis' tutorial textures).
- Mountains in this climate zone should have snow on them, and should be more greyish.
- Having a large font collection is good!

Things I wonder (partially jokingly):
- Is it normal for computers to spend five minutes on a single (albeit complicated) command?
- Is it normal for computers to warm the entire house? On the bright side, I never had cold feet during the making of this map ;)
- How in the world do people make make good tile-able textures?

People I should tank:
- Pasis, for making an awesome tutorial.
- The creator of this forum, for making an equally awesome forum.
- Matrim, for inspiring me to post this map.

arsheesh
02-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Now that's a map with allot of character. Perhaps the mountains should have snow on them, but visually they look really believable. I like your parchment-style legend/map key as well. Oh and can totally relate to your quandary about the length of time it takes for your computer to perform a single command: using RobA's tapered stroke path on the rivers of my map took literally hours on my computer. Great job, and here's some rep.

Cheers,

-Arsheesh.

moutarde
02-08-2010, 04:25 PM
That looks really great, and congrats on posting your first map here! The only quibble I have, is the gaps in the forest cover. They strike me as looking kind of squarish. But other than that, very well done!

Meridius
02-08-2010, 04:36 PM
Which gaps exactly? The small ones, which are 'built into' the texture, or the slightly larger clearings?

Oh, and thank you guys for the comments, and rep! :)

moutarde
02-08-2010, 06:28 PM
Which gaps exactly? The small ones, which are 'built into' the texture, or the slightly larger clearings?

Oh, and thank you guys for the comments, and rep! :)

I was referring to the smaller ones - I didn't realize they were part of the texture though. They just seem a little jagged in some spots, like they just need a little smoothing or something...

Djekspek
02-08-2010, 07:38 PM
That's a very nice "pasis style" map you got there!! As for the gaps, I tried the pasis tutorial some months ago and also found the little "gap" in the trees as well a bit out-of-style (compared to the rest of the stuff in the tut which is just pro). smudging would help or maybe a dark green background could make it a little smoother. cheers!

Coyotemax
02-08-2010, 10:07 PM
What I found works well for creating the forest texture in that respect is to not use the magic wand tool, but the "Colour Select" (in photoshop anyhow, not sure about gimp). That way instead of a hard selection edge, it goes into a smooth selection when removing the black. That's what happened here I think - there's a hard defined edge between the black (removed, now transparent) and the almost black.

Very small point, and doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the map!

it's a wondeful piece, tutorial basis or not (I've done my share of similar mapping style, nothing wrong with that!), and conveys a lot of information without being overcrowded.

Definitely worth posting, thanks! (and i love the parchment/legend/etc on the left, wonderful job, couldn't have done better myself!)

mearrin69
02-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Really great map, doubly so for your first time, so have some rep from me.

Agree about the forests...the gap in the texture isn't great but it's still a nice looking map so fix it if you can but don't sweat it if you can't. If you still have the thing in layers maybe you can just make a surgical fix? If not, you might be able go in by hand and do some paint/smudge/smear to see if you can smooth out the worst parts.

As for creating tileable textures I might have a solution for you. Visit this link (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category.php?page=3) and look at the lower-left of the list of tutorials. "Creating Tileable Textures" is (not surprisingly) the one you want. You'll have to register to download it but they don't spam you (that I've noticed). There's much great stuff on that site...many paychecks worth of tutorials are on my wish-list at present.
M

Matrim
02-09-2010, 11:16 AM
This still blows me away! Gonna have to try that tut really soon, and can't wait to get to the next adventure in those woods. :)

And see, I told you they'd love it, hehe ;)
Have some rep!

Steel General
02-09-2010, 11:18 AM
This is quite nice Meridius!

TheMarcus7
02-09-2010, 01:03 PM
I have to come down on the other side of the "gap" opinion. The first time I looked at your beautiful map, I thought those broke up the uniformity of the forest texture nicely, and those little gaps seemed perfectly normal for this type of map. Looks less computer drawn and more hand textured I guess. <clicks the rep button>. Nice work!

.TM7

Meridius
02-10-2010, 05:30 AM
What I found works well for creating the forest texture in that respect is to not use the magic wand tool, but the "Colour Select" (in photoshop anyhow, not sure about gimp). That way instead of a hard selection edge, it goes into a smooth selection when removing the black. That's what happened here I think - there's a hard defined edge between the black (removed, now transparent) and the almost black.

Very small point, and doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the map!

it's a wondeful piece, tutorial basis or not (I've done my share of similar mapping style, nothing wrong with that!), and conveys a lot of information without being overcrowded.

Definitely worth posting, thanks! (and i love the parchment/legend/etc on the left, wonderful job, couldn't have done better myself!)
Hmm, I'm going to try that out now... *tries it now, but cannot find texture* Though I cannot find the original texture with the black still intact, I've tried another forest, it does work very nicely indeed! I'll remember this for my next map :)


Really great map, doubly so for your first time, so have some rep from me.

Agree about the forests...the gap in the texture isn't great but it's still a nice looking map so fix it if you can but don't sweat it if you can't. If you still have the thing in layers maybe you can just make a surgical fix? If not, you might be able go in by hand and do some paint/smudge/smear to see if you can smooth out the worst parts.

As for creating tileable textures I might have a solution for you. Visit this link (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category.php?page=3) and look at the lower-left of the list of tutorials. "Creating Tileable Textures" is (not surprisingly) the one you want. You'll have to register to download it but they don't spam you (that I've noticed). There's much great stuff on that site...many paychecks worth of tutorials are on my wish-list at present.
M
I actually already knew that method... And while I'm fine making seamless textures from photo's (I prefer looking up landscapes in Google Earth), I find that the real world is so varied that I always end up with one 'dark spot' or something which when tiled becomes noticable due to it repeating all over the place... What I actually was wondering, apart from looking for a very uniform texture, how do people do that? I do know how to make a texture seamless, It's just that it's always noticable that something is repeating itself 'down there' when I use home-grown textures.


This still blows me away! Gonna have to try that tut really soon, and can't wait to get to the next adventure in those woods. :)

And see, I told you they'd love it, hehe ;)
Have some rep!
I still thank you for encouraging me :)

To everyone: Thank you for your advise, critique, compliments and rep. I REALLY appreciate it. I also think I definitely should make more maps, and if I do, include WIP's here on this guild. :)

Coyotemax
02-10-2010, 06:01 AM
I've been using non-real world textures for the most part, but this will work just as well for realworld textures - when i remember to do it :)

What I'll do in that case is to use 2 textures that are very similar, and use the one to paint over on a layer above (usually with no blending - just leave on normal), using a low flow and opacity with more or less random placement - random enough it's difficult to see any repeats when you overlay the patters, and un-random enough to paint over bits that look obviously tiled. If you use the Pattern Stamp tool (it sounds like you're using photoshop) uncheck the "Aligned" option. Aligned means it will align the pattern to the edge of the image, and as you paint, it basically reveals the texture as it goes which will allow for tiling to show. Not Aligned means that when you start painting with the brush, the starting point for each stroke defines the edge, and gives you the opportunity for less of a tiled look.

Meridius
02-10-2010, 08:01 AM
Ok, thanks, I'll try that, though I wonder if two strokes connect, won't you get 'overlapping trees'?

I have some time to spare, so I've translated the 'parchment' on the map. Excuse any translation errors, I sometimes end up using Dutch grammar in English when translating. :sad:
I think most of it was already pretty clear, but especially the 'flavour text' on the bottom may put some background story in the map.


Map of the County 'Oostangelt' and the 'Verboden Pas' (Forbidden Pass).

Legend
- Water
- City / Village
- Forest
- Mountains
- Grassland
- Plains
- Swamp
- Fields
- Road
- National Border
- County Border
- Barony Border

--------------------

The following labels are examples. The labels are not always on the same scale as on the map.

- Rivers and lakes
- Seas
- Islands
- Country names
- County names
- Barony names
- Placenames
- County capital (names)

---------------------

Scale of 20 miles.

------------------

Oostangelt

Oostangelt is a sparcely populated and troubled county. Oostangelt (Oost = East) has long been ruled together with Zuidangelt (Zuid = South) as a separate country. When this ended, Angelt was absorbed into the large kingdom/empire of Bern, and rapidly depopulated.

The old (original) count was killed a few decades ago by a robber baron (literally: robber knight). This tyrant ruled Angelt until 3 years ago, when the tyrant attacked two adventurers for fun. The adventurers emerged victorious and killed the count (tyrant). However, since the King (of Bern) had tolerated the tyrant, he was forced to punish the two adventurers for killing one of his counts.

The King separated Angelt into two counties, and made the adventurers counts of Oostangelt and Zuidangelt. Their mission (punishment) is to bring piece and prosperity in this part of Bern.

The 'Verboden Pas' (Forbidden Pass)

The Verboden Pas earned it's name due to it's inhospitabilty and impassability.

Moreover, the rumour goes that besides the many dangerous animals and dark creatures who roam here, there is a greater threat. It is said that at least two dragons would live in the pass.

Note that this text is intentionally not quite clear, but became even more unclear due to the translation. I can't explain the full story, since one of my D&D players is a member here, and I don't want to spoil anything for him.

Coyotemax
02-10-2010, 08:31 AM
You can get a bit of overlap if you're not careful yes, but you can avoid that by using larger strokes, scribble around a bit and it reduces the chance for it happening. Plus if it does occur, you can always paint over the bits you don't like, or erase them.

Here's an example i put together to show you the results. Images 2 and 3 are the initial textures, and show the tiling. 1st one is texture2 as a base, and texture1 on a layer above, pattern stamped with a 200px soft brush at 50% opacity/flow and unchecked the Aligned.. I just painted around a bit to take out the tiled looking areas, and left it at that. It's not perfect, you can still see a bit in there if you look for it, but I just didn't feel like going back to adjust it after uploading (this is just for example, afterall) :) I also use a similar technique to do soft transitions from one kind of terrain to another.. overlapping lush prairie textures with less lush leading into arid scrub, then into sandy desert, for example. Not all textures work out well, but that's where the fun of experimenting comes in :)

It seems to work best when you have similar colour palettes in each texture you're overlapping, too.