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View Full Version : Testing out CD 3 - WIP on Small seaside town.



Elothan
02-17-2010, 01:37 PM
Had a few feww hours today, so I thought I woud test out CD3 a little bit, and after trying a little bit, I came up with this...
Not exactly Gandwarf quality, but served me nice learning a bit about the software :)

I know there are a few errors (like the symbol house near the docks) and such, but for a first draft I am content :)
Thanks to GD for the cliff tutorial.

Ascension
02-17-2010, 04:24 PM
Looks pretty good. Bright colors but good. I could see myself using something like this.

Elothan
02-17-2010, 04:34 PM
The bright Colours are more a result of the styleset i used in CD 3, I think they will be toned down a bit later :)

Mark Oliva
02-17-2010, 11:26 PM
I switched from CC3 to another mapping program before CD3 was released, so I've never seen the product and don't know what its limitations are, nor do I really have much of an idea what it does and doesn't do. It may be that there isn't much that it will let you do about what seem to be some strange effectsto me. If CD3 lets you do it, you might want to think about changing the scale (or something else, depending upon what CD3 offers) to get rid of the rather pronounced pattern redundancies in the water fill and the grass fill. In the water fill, these redundancies are so strong that it looks like the water is smudged everywhere, and it's always the identical smudge. I've had a question for a long time about CD3 maps. Every one that I've seen so far always has roofs of the most incredible colors. That includes the demo maps on ProFantasy's web sites: Fire engine red, lemon yellow, snow white, parchment creme, etc. I've never seen a real world roof that looks anything like these roofs. That isn't intended as a criticism. We're mapping fantasy RPG locations, for the most part, and these roof colors lend a location a character of being somewhere else than in the real world, which has its merits. Nonetheless, I'm curious. Is a CD3 mapper limited to these roof colors if he or she wants to use the CD3 tools, or is this more or less a preferred style of the CD3 mapping community? Or is there some other reason why these kinds of roof colors are chosen?

Katto
02-18-2010, 02:22 AM
Don't mix too many different roof types when working with CD3. Try also to avoid the png buildings if possible. It is a good start for working with CD3 for the first time. I would like to see more CD3 maps here.

@Mark Oliva:
Most users use the predefined backgrounds, houses etc., because it is convenient I think. You can change everything, import textures for roofs and backgrounds and so on. In my opinion most people are scared when they see the UI of this program. Intuitive is a word that don't match with CC3.

Elothan
02-18-2010, 07:07 AM
@ Mark Olivia, yeah, I am going to change the water texures and such in the final map, just have to find one I like.
@ Katto, to many colours, While I understand what you are saying, but any other tips on it not getting to monotonous ?
And yeah, the CC3 interface is a bit daunting a first, feling I am starting to get a hang of it now, atleast I know what MOST buttons do :p

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 07:40 AM
Most users use the predefined backgrounds, houses etc., because it is convenient I think. You can change everything, import textures for roofs and backgrounds and so on.

Does CD3 (as opposed to CC3) fill out streets with buildings made from imported third party symbols, or does CD3 only produce its own generated building symbols? I'm referring to raster symbols only, not fills or textures. With CD2, one could define street autofills only within the range of CC2 Pro's own vector concepts. CD3 might do the same thing, or it might work with actual raster symbols. I'm curious which is the case. I haven't seen a single CD3 (as opposed to CC3) map to date that has any buildings that aren't CD3 style. I'm getting the impression that CD3 can't use anything but its own graphics in making automatically generated streets. That impression comes both from all of the CD3 maps I've seen to date and from reports from people who have downloaded our raster symbols for buildings. They can convert them and use them with no difficulty in CC3 as individual raster symbols, but they say that they can't be incorporated into CD3. They may be right, and then again, they might simply not know how to do it.


In my opinion most people are scared when they see the UI of this program. Intuitive is a word that don't match with CC3.

Right. I learned that the hard way when our group produced the "Northern Journey" adventure several years ago. We used CC2 Pro, CD2 and DD2 to make the editable maps we distributed in maps CC2's FCW format. The great majority of user complaints that we received were from people who didn't want to climb CC2's great learning curve and urged us to find a different mapping program.

Elothan
02-18-2010, 07:54 AM
I do not think there is any way to populate a street wit raster symbols, at least using the default generate street tool. I am pretty sure however that it would be possible to write a macro that does somrhing long those lines (people have macros for making symbol based mountain ranges, etc) But since I dont know anything about macros, I would know how to write one.

Katto
02-18-2010, 09:13 AM
I agree with Elothan. In the ProFantasy Forum you will find a thread with tutorials:
http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=928
Have a look at tutorial 1...

NeonKnight
02-18-2010, 11:22 AM
@Mark; CD3 will use what ever House Style you define to fill streets.

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 11:25 AM
@Mark; CD3 will use what ever House Style you define to fill streets.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can I, for instance, tell CD3 to take, say, a collection of 50 third party building symbols and then generate a new house style that will populate a street with those symbols?

Gandwarf
02-18-2010, 11:37 AM
I like the map, it has character, even though it does have the generic CC3 look and feel. This map is pretty usable for a lot of DM's I think :)
I like how you did the house on the hill/cliffs.

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 11:49 AM
I agree with Elothan. In the ProFantasy Forum you will find a thread with tutorials:
http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=928
Have a look at tutorial 1...

Good. I looked at the tutorial. I don't believe it answers my question, although I might be wrong.

The main reason I'm asking this is because we've gotten some mail from CC3 users who have downloaded our Cartographic Collection, which contains more than 1,000 raster symbols, mostly of buildings. There also are other raster building symbols available free in the CSUAC, at RPG Map Share and in the Dundjinni forums. They're much better quality than the CD3 symbols I see in maps. Our symbols and those work from the CSUAC, Dundjinni users and RPG Map Sharework fine in CC3 after being converted, but only as individual symbols.

People who have CD3 are asking whether there's any way to use our symbols, converted for CC3, together with the CD3 street generation tool. I haven't the foggiest idea. I worked for about a year with CC3 and DD3 before giving them away, but I've never seen CD3. I have told folks to inquire at ProFantasy, but at least some of them found the answers that they got confusing and not helpful.

So ... if the answer is yes, if one can use third party raster symbols with the street generation tool of CD3, and someone can point me somewhere that tells how, I would be delighted to pass that information on when I'm asked and help those CD3 users get more from their program.

Thanks for your replies so far!

NeonKnight
02-18-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can I, for instance, tell CD3 to take, say, a collection of 50 third party building symbols and then generate a new house style that will populate a street with those symbols?

You can take the Bitmap Fill Styles and use those to draw Buildings. I am not 100% sure about auto populatiing with actulal symbols beyond CC3 generic DRAW SYMBOLS ALONG A LINE tool.

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 12:12 PM
You can take the Bitmap Fill Styles and use those to draw Buildings. I am not 100% sure about auto populating with actual symbols beyond CC3 generic DRAW SYMBOLS ALONG A LINE tool.

Again, thanks for your answer. I know what you mean, but the problem doesn't deal with fill styles, although I'm informed those don't always come out right either in the sense that roof tiles don't change direction. The problem deals with specific individual raster symbols, each of a specific building. I suspect that CD3 wasn't designed to do that, but I don't know that.

Katto
02-18-2010, 01:20 PM
OK, sorry my fault. I was at work and had not much time.
CC3 can use *.png pictures that can be placed in the maps additional to the vector based shapes. These, let's call them symbols, are organized by themes, e.g. mountains, trees etc. in the symbol manager. From there you choose the symbol to place it on the map, no difference if it is a vector graphic or a *.png (The *.png's come in different sizes from low to very high resolution). The linked tutorial about macros shows us in chapter 11 that it is possible to place *.png's (the tree) along a path. The tutorial further shows how to place different randomized *.png's along the path and how to scale them.
You see that it is possible to add raster pictures in the way the street generation tool does, but not that comfortable. To be honest, it is not a thing of a few minutes or days. Nor do I have an idea at the moment how powerful the CC3 macro language is in interacting with the user. The "Tome of Ultimate Mapping" is a good resource, but refers to the CC2 series. I hope there will be an update soon.

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 01:44 PM
CC3 can use *.png pictures that can be placed in the maps additional to the vector based shapes.

Right.


The linked tutorial about macros shows us in chapter 11 that it is possible to place *.png's (the tree) along a path. The tutorial further shows how to place different randomized *.png's along the path and how to scale them.

Right again. All of that I still remember from the year that I worked with CC3. However, it's been more than a year since I've seen CC3. I think it's fair to say that only a small percentage of CC3 users will do things with macros. The people who are asking if they can build our symbols (i.e. PNGs and JPGs) into the CD3 street generator probably aren't in that category.

All that not withstanding, thanks again for your answers.

Mark Oliva
02-18-2010, 01:48 PM
Had a few feww hours today, so I thought I woud test out CD3 a little bit, and after trying a little bit, I came up with this...
Not exactly Gandwarf quality, but served me nice learning a bit about the software :)

It just occurred to me that I've kind of stolen your thread to ask questions that have nothing whatsoever to do with your map. I'll either drop out now or, if it's purposeful, start a new thread to continue the discussion. Apologies! I hadn't intended to hijack you!

Elothan
02-18-2010, 02:02 PM
@Mark Olivia It is no problem at all :) Perhaps a mod can split the topic or something so it goes into the right place :)

@Gandwarf That means a lot, especially coming from you :)


Seems like I am a bit stck making "simpler" CD3 maps until I get an harware upgrade.. My poor old 13" laptop is struggeling with larger Citymaps....

Katto
02-18-2010, 02:21 PM
Sorry Elothan. It was not my intention to misuse your WIP thread :blush:.

Elothan
02-18-2010, 03:10 PM
No stress :)