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Thread: [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens

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      Redrobes is offline
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    Post [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens

    Did a bit on my tile last night but didn't upload it so here it is so far...

    ### Latest WIP ###
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens-region1map7_1.jpg  

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      Torq is offline
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    Looking most excellent Redrobes. I love the the erosion, what did you use to create that? The beach coloured sand at the lowest coastal altitudes also looks great. Cant wait to see where you go from here.

    Torq
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    Software Used: Terranoise, Wilbur, Terragen, The Gimp, Inkscape, Mojoworld

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      Redrobes is offline
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    I started by looking at the 3D height which is image 1. I found this pretty hard to deal with. I tried various erosions and flow settings but basically it has a lot of complex ripple like noise which ends up as basins which flood into big big pools and was hard to persuade it to sort that out. In any case the amplitude of the noise is very large for being so close to the sea level. Thats not unheard of and I think Croatia coastline is like that - see Zadar but its not the sort of place that people have rushed to populate either and its not the sort of map I wanted to make.

    Still within that constraint I thought that what we would have is a fen land with a lot of marsh and I believe that one of my neighbors has said that they want to go that route too. The thing now was that there is no geography to generate those pools so I figured that what would be good was a long ridge running through the middle of it. I also figured that it would make for a good dynamic that the main road through the land was along the ridge line and unusually all the low lands were the dangerous bits full of marshy swamp and creatures to boot.

    So I got out the original coast and lake boundaries to match up and hand made some hills by painting about 4 shades of grey in and blurring them hard. Then I added a scaled version of that as a heightmap to a scaled down version of the original so that there was some of the original texture to the final map. It was about 50:50 or so. I also fixed some key rivers in place by joining up some of the smaller lakes with some darker lines on the height map.

    Then I set it off with various erosion and flow stuff in my GeoTerSys which after a while produced the map below. It took a lot of faffing with various settings and basically I put the map into an ice age and let it thaw slowly. The ice cuts some of the blockages away like a glacier and roughens up the terrain in the right places too. When the water then flows it cuts more of the rivers and you can see where it thinks some of the rivers were in different places than I had put them so it has kinda broken the flow bit but thats cool.

    The beaches were all auto generated by it. Theres a bit in the program that smooths out the low to high tidal areas to create beaches. I don't have very good cliff algorithms in the prog yet.

    So after that we have the next pic which is my eroded height and then the same but colored. From this point I should be able to select a section and blow it up and up res it but thats for later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens-3d_original_height.jpg   [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens-3d_eroded_height.jpg   [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens-3d_color.jpg  

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      su_liam is offline
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    Waldronate has a nice tutorial on creating realistic erosion. It's Wilbur-specific, but the ideas should be adaptable. It seems like a solution to some of the problems you've spoken of before.

    I see your HF had the same nasty square artifacts as mine.

    Looking good so far. I'm liking your rivers better than the FT-generated ones, too.

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      Redrobes is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by su_liam View Post
    I see your HF had the same nasty square artifacts as mine.
    I think that the horz & vert lines in the raw HF are probably induced from my scaling. Until its in a form that I can deal with in GTS then I have to do using some more brutal techniques. I was more concerned with the Z res so that the bits near to the coast produced the same shapes.

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      Torq is offline
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    Thanks Redrobes. In you explanation you included a slightly isometric colour version of your map. I think the mountains in that one look a whole lot more effective in that view with the perspective than they do in the top down view. I think the mountains in the map section tend to look slightly flat when viewed from above. Is there a way you can show more height on that version?

    One way is to cheat. You can make a selection the same shape as your mountains and then apply a black/white shaped (angular) gradient. Its very angular but with some blur and noise you can make it a bit rougher. Then you apply this as a bump map to the mountain range. Not hyper realism but it can be quite effective.

    Thanks for letting us into you process. I cant wait to see some of the 3d views you will be able to generate.

    Torq
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    Software Used: Terranoise, Wilbur, Terragen, The Gimp, Inkscape, Mojoworld

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      Redrobes is offline
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    If this tile is 600 miles across and say 1200 pixels then each pixel is half a mile. We measured mountains and found that they average at about 7 miles across but some in Chile were larger but only up to about 15. So somewhere between 15 and 30 pixels is about the size of a mountain.

    So I think that I need to process a little more. The raised ground is mountainous areas in general and need to be blended with a 15-30 pixel noise map to give a mountain range in that shape. A kind of bump map there, a little different from what you said but much the same.

    Then I need to run the process a bit more and let the rivers sync up again for the new mountainous regions. I wasn't planning on having any snow here in this region but I could leave a little sprinkling on top if you think it would look nice.

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      RobA is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torq View Post
    T Is there a way you can show more height on that version?
    This reminded me of something I had posted a while ago, but can not find by searching the forums.

    You can render a slight perspective map then warp it back to its actual straight overhead shape. This caused the mountains be represented in a forced isometric false perspective...

    Here was the comparison image I had created:
    [Region 1][Map 07] - Thrubmorton Fens-comparison.jpg

    -Rob A>

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      Torq is offline
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    That does look really effective. It changes the entire feel from aerial to storybook instantly. Whats the minimum amount of angle you can get away with and still get the effect? I think if I do another region I'll try and do that.

    Torq
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    Software Used: Terranoise, Wilbur, Terragen, The Gimp, Inkscape, Mojoworld

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      Redrobes is offline
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    I have some mountains chugging away in the background so I thought id outline what I was thinking for my terrain.

    So I have said that this area is pretty bleak and not filled with cities. Theres a few natural routes across the map and some of them are a bit prone to attack on both sides. I could see Lizard Men coming out from the swamps and taking down merchant caravans so I would expect them to be armed and have a good supply of mercenaries.

    So a series of stockaded and otherwise generally fortified points would need to be placed at regular intervals along the route. Each would probably charge a tariff for the benefit of being guarded - nobody's likely to camp outside of the fortifications.

    So I reckon that these places would be quite basic and yet rich at the same time. You could probably get anything but its not likely to be sourced locally unless it relates to general merchanting. Theres probably enough farming going on to support the forts or towns but not in excess, all food thats not simple would be brought in. Probably more meats & roots than grains & fruit so all beer, wine & lodging would be expensive.

    Probably have everything for warriors but a bit light on priests. Plenty of rogues but not all that many wizards. I expect an unusually high proportion of racial mixes too. Probably a great rumor mill going as well as spying and I would have thought an excellent place for bards.

    I should think that theres plenty of adventuring work going whether doing mercenary work or generally lowering the local predator count. I would have expected that its the sort of area where new discoveries crop up now and again. Its not like lots of people are scouring the area - most just want to get through as fast as possible. So there could be untold numbers of ruins, caves, disused mines long forgotten etc. For the same reasons its a likely place that unusual creatures hang out - esp those that can tolerate wet conditions. Its quite possible that these monsters spend more time fighting between themselves and other monstrous races than picking off merchants. The towns might get caught up in these spats whether with armies or refugees.

    Ohh my maps just finished... lets see what it looks like.

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