<![CDATA[Cartographers' Guild - Toponymy and Linguistics]]> http://www.cartographersguild.com/ Discussion on the subject of toponymy and linguistics in relation to cartography. en Thu, 23 May 2013 12:58:55 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.cartographersguild.com/images/cartographer/misc/rss.png <![CDATA[Cartographers' Guild - Toponymy and Linguistics]]> http://www.cartographersguild.com/ Language and Writing system for fiction project http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=23141&goto=newpost Wed, 24 Apr 2013 13:24:38 GMT I figured I would post here, if for nothing else than to get feedback and spur me into fleshing this out even further. While I am in the process of... I figured I would post here, if for nothing else than to get feedback and spur me into fleshing this out even further. While I am in the process of restructuring my own world, from the ground up, so to speak, I had established the basis for a common trade language on my world. Unfortunately much of my notes were lost, and so I'll be working on this from memory.

A trade language is an interesting and ever evolving concept. Miriam Webster has this much to say about it ...
Quote:
A restructured language (as a lingua franca or pidgin) used especially in commercial communication
Next, for those curious, we have Lingua Franca.
Quote:
often capitalized : a common language consisting of Italian mixed with French, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic that was formerly spoken in Mediterranean ports
2
: any of various languages used as common or commercial tongues among peoples of diverse speech
3
: something resembling a common language
and finally, Pidgin ...
Quote:
: a simplified speech used for communication between people with different languages
Lets be honest here. We have a whole world, with many peoples separated by natural boundaries over the eons. Over time, these people, whether they are related by species or not, will develop independently of one another. Likewise, those many off-branches, like annoying siblings or cousins, will borrow and adapt from whom or whatever they split off from. Over time, language develops among these peoples, and some will have shared various words in their language, with minor and major adaptations, while those separated by vast natural boundaries (great distances, oceans, mountains etc.) will have developed languages completely different from their distant cousins. As they meet again, and with the passing of time, words and concepts are exchanged among these people, becoming part of the common language. Just look at modern English and how many words, phrases and concepts from other cultures have become part of our every day conversations.

In my world, the idea is simple. While there are several major empires whose ambitions and animosity toward each other is comparable to 16th century Spain, France and England, they speak very different languages. Merchants, unlike empires, really have no qualms with one territory, city state, empire etc. or another, so long as they can make a living. Because of this, over time, an amalgamation of a language took shape, first among the merchants and trading caravans as they dealt with each other, and then spreading among the common folk over time. This monster, over even more time, was simplified and standardized, itself becoming a common language among travelers.

When I thought of this, I eventually had to ask myself a few things. First, what did I want the language to sound like? I decided on something that seemed to flow, but was heavy on consonants and featured double vowels. After getting a bit of a feel for how things sounded, I looked at the words I used, the spellings I had thought up, and asked myself how I would simplify things. I then set about developing an alphabet, first just focusing on the sounds I wanted, the letters that in English produced those sounds, and then finally, set them up in a system similar to the Elder Futhark's Aetts that I called, Khaairo (KH-AE-RHO). I had decided that the number three would be important, referring to an archaic creation myth for my world, involving a "three faced god," or a deity with three aspects. Essentially, three was a number of good fortune. With that in mind, I worked around the concept of three Khaairo sets, consisting of thirteen symbols, making up a total of 39 symbols.

Following my decision of 39 symbols and 3 Khaairo sets with 13 symbols each, I decided to take a long hard look into the Elder Futhark and the reason it was set up as it had been. Eventually, I came to an explanation I rather liked, I believe from two known experts in the study of Norse Runes, Freya Aswynn and Edred Thorsson. The short and sweet of it was, that each Aett had a part in a grand story explaining the runes, while each of the runes carried with them several meanings ... A letter within their alphabet, a concept, and an overall meaning used in divination. I liked this three-fold concept. I liked it a lot and applied a similar concept to my own Khaairo.
With that in mind, the three syllable word, Khaairo now had a three part meaning (Weave/Thread/Gift or Keep = To Keep/Give of the Woven Thread), but we'll get to that in a minute. Each symbol would have a letter, or pair of letters associated with it, indicating the sound made. Likewise, every symbol would have a concept attached to it, for example, in the Elder Futhark, the rune Fehu represents the domestic cow, and is a symbol of communal wealth. Likewise each symbol had a concept of it's own that accentuated the Khaairo. Finally, rather than simply attaching a divination system to the Khaairo, I instead settled on a numerical system that would, later, be tied to it's own system of numerology. What this meant was, Each Khaairo told part of a story, and with each symbol in it's respective Khaairo set, a concept and a number that further accentuated the story. The writing system itself, spoke of a common creation myth among the empires. The writing and language system of the common people and the merchants, was a testament to their faith regardless of what god they worshiped, and in that sense, the act of writing or debate could be viewed as an act of passive worship. More so, this conscious act to tie everything together as I did, had been intended as a learning aid for children in my fictional world, better enabling them to learn the language through association.

Phew ... that was a lot from memory. Now with this up, I can begin rebuilding my "common" language. A few notes on the actual writing system, though. I had chosen a system similar to the Mongolian script, with a few notable differences that, once again, tie into the Khaairo.

Written from the top-down, left-to-right.
Each line is begun with a symbol that seems to intersect every letter in the line -- This is the result of how the symbols are drawn. This symbol represents the actual "Thread" mentioned above.
Few grammar marks, among which are included a full stop and mark to indicate a new word.
The color of ink indicates meanings that otherwise are difficult to portray in the script itself.
Because the letter symbols and the number symbols are the same, the left side of a "thread" is reserved for words, where as the right side of that "thread" is reserved for numbers.
Words are written in sets of three syllables. There are words longer than three syllables, and these are the result of "expanded concepts", in which one word may not be enough to get the idea across, thus two or more are strung together.

That's all for now. Hopefully, I'll have more in the coming days for anyone's viewing pleasure and critique. Hopefully some pictures, too. ]]> Toponymy and Linguistics Scrit http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=23141 Creating a Language for world http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=23041&goto=newpost Tue, 16 Apr 2013 07:43:31 GMT I've been working on a language for my world for a few months now. I created an alphabet and a system to use it. I'm starting to work on the words and how they should be put together. I don't have the vocabulary in English to describe how to put a sentence together in a different langauge, so I'm just going to describe how to pronounce the letters of the alphabet and provide a dictionary of words and let the user decide how to construct sentences with it. I have no traning in Linguistics, so this might not make any sense at all. I find this a very time consuming project to have going during my mapping phase of my Shikodu/Zigoto map. The map is coming along fine and is filling out. I'm also planning to create a alphabet wheel which will give each word an elemental magical properties as well for ritual use.

The back story and at least 11 working religions have been created using this information. I have to translate the material into this language if I can get enough words and work out how to describe further details. Things are a little out of order right now, but I plan to put some of this into an image file that I will have in my albums. This is months away still.

Here's the alphabet and the stuff I have on this language I plan to use for my maps labeling when I get to that point.
Creating a Language for world-rokat-alphabet.jpg

To read this magical language is simple and easy. You read each word three letters at a time. Some words end at four or five letters; read the last parts as they would sound anyway. Most words are three Rokat characters long for this purpose. To read words that are two Rokat characters long, read the first three English characters and add the sound of the remaining fourth or fifth.
Sounds like CH, SH and TH are counted as one English character in reading Rokat. All Rokat words have an alternating pattern of consonant and vowel sounds. All words and names start with a consonant sound, except for the letter A. When it comes to Inugan names and titles, they usually start in a vowel, but not always. Examples of Rokat are:
Shakina
Jubali
Panato
Siga
Pina
Vahu
Lawaro
Thimat
Timat
Konashif
Now that we have some Rokat words, it is time to read them. The first word is Shakina. To read it properly, do so like this, “shak-ina”. The last vowel in Rokat makes the sound of the vowel instead of its name or another “ah” in this case. For the “I” the sound of the letter, not the name or “ee” sound. If the letter “H” is the third letter you move its sound to the second verse of the word. In vahu you read it as such, “va-hu”. In the case of a longer word like this, “vahuna” or “lawaro”, you read it like this, “va-hun-a”, “la-war-o” even though the word it six letters long.

Writing Rokat
The Rokat alphabet is a very simple system of combining letters to shorten the written word. In this diagram, I have provided the Rokat alphabet in Rokat order and English order. They have no question mark. I’m still not sure how to do (brackets). The act of questioning, in Rokat Literature is hard to define, since the sign itself is absent. It’s guesswork if the person speaking is not asking a question.
To use this alphabet, write from top left to bottom right in vertical lines. This alphabet can not properly be used to write in English. To write with this alphabet, write the vertical consonant sound first then add the vowel sound over the consonant marks. Each letter is a combination of Consonant and vowel. For words that end in a consonant, make the consonant by itself. Place a space sign between words. Language rules are similar to English and word usage is very similar.

This is the English spelling for “In the Names.” is “Be ke Kopot.” and the Rokat spelling is this.

Now you can compare the usage of the Rokat characters with those of English.
Prefixes and Suffixes of Rokat
These are all the prefixes and suffixes used in Rokat. The English Language uses far more than is seen in Rokat. They have far more root words than we do. The dictionary will show the complexity of Rokat root words. All of the root words seen in the Prophecy will be presented in the below dictionary.
These are the prefixes for the Rokat Language. For the most part have similarities to the English usage. If a Rokat word begins in a vowel, it has a prefix attached to it. This would represent a vowel line in front of the word. Here are the prefixes in Rokat.
“e” Against “anti”.
“a” Not too “non, un”.
“i” Back again “re”
“o” Before “pre”
“u” “en,em”
Let us move onto the “ion”, “s” and “ed” or suffixes of words. This part will be similar to English in many ways. When a Rokat words ends in a consonant, it means it has a suffix applied to it. Some words in English appear to have a suffix by the nature of their spelling, but in Rokat, may not have a suffix applied.
“l ” Action, “er ”.
“k” Past tense “ed”.
“g” superlative, “est”.
“t” More than one “s, ies”
“j” Without or missing, “less”
“d” Worth, ability, “able, ible”.
“f” In the manner of “ly, wise”
“n” Having the quality of, “ed”.
“b” Activity, or result of activity, “ing”.
“s” Having, or getting marked by, “ful”.
“sh” State or quality “acy, ance, cy, ity, ty”.
“p” Condition or action, “ion, ive, ment, ness, or”.
“z” Related to, one that is, or having the character of “an, ist, ian, ism, ish ‘s”.
English to Rokat dictionary will be provided to show the English words and its Rokat counterpart at the end of this book. If a definition is provided, it means the Rokat word differs somewhat from the English word. Some Rokat words don’t exist in our language so the closest words are used instead.
Attached Thumbnails
Creating a Language for world-rokat-alphabet.jpg  
]]> Toponymy and Linguistics darkseed2012 http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=23041 Anyone have any tips for naming? http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=22981&goto=newpost Thu, 11 Apr 2013 01:16:52 GMT I wasn't sure if this should go here or in the critique part of the forums. Since I'm not the one making the map i figured the general forums would be the best bet.

As some of you may have seen, i commissioned my world map to be made. The map will be featured in the stories i release to kindle. However I'm getting stuck on names. Does any one know of any good name gen sites or tips on how to name regions, worlds, crops of trees lol.

To help give an example i will post the basic info about the races. Its pretty long so i slapped it into a spoiler tag.
 

Races:
The Empire - To put it simply, they are aliens. They come from a different planet but their society regressed back to a fantasy setting. They also control the "AI" a super intelligent computerized "teacher" that is programmed to "terraform" a society. Slowly over the generations it teaches them things and advances them to star faring cultures. Right now the empire is in an American civil war era. They have black powder guns, electricity and metal war ships. They generally feel that they are above the other races and are more than happy to take slaves. They even have human breeding farms to cultivate the magic genes. (These guys are kind of a mix of the Japanese and Romans)

Humans - Medieval style culture. Less war and religion focused though. Egotistic, loves their money and takes slaves. (European)

Asians - They belong to a special order of warrior monks that use every ounce of power they have to keep the main body of the "Taint" contained in a small island near the volcanic ring the Asians call home. They keep their fighting talents a secret, only training their own kind. They are also protected by a dragon guardian (Water). This dragon teaches the monks how to fight the tainted people. They send out assassins to hunt them down. (Buddhist monk influences)

Dragon Guardians - Four of the oldest and most powerful dragons. Each being well over a thousand years old. Able to easily control each of the four elements (Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water.) Only one is ever awake at any given time. They work with the Asians to keep the Taint contained. sleeping allows the dragons to maintain their power and keep it locked away. The Earth and Fire dragons are the main ones needed for this. The last time all four were away was when the Taint landed. (Mix of asian and euro dragons)

Barbarians - Nomadic warriors who live in the cold regions no other races are willing to live. They use nature magics and animal communication, preferring to use the help of the giant polar bears and mammoths. They are a typical shamanistic society, hunter gatherers and prizing strength above all. And like most fantasy barbarians, they quite large. (Little bit of the Hun mixed with Vikings)

Dwarves - Steampunk versions of the dwarves we see in most fantasy stories. They have steam powered engines and electricity. They are still the best crafters around. (Other then the steam punk these guys are typical fantasy dwarves)

Wood Elves - Hippies on steroids, its all about the threes. They have a general ban on harvesting wood except in select places. They don't like strangers either. They will attack people chopping down trees as well. (No earth influence)

High Elves - They are kind of the justice and virtue of the world. Paladins that cant be corrupted, and they run the world prison. (No earth influence)

Dark Elves - They are pretty typical of the fantasy Drow. A long time prior to the events of the story, they tried to take over a lot of the surface and even chased the dwarves away from a few of their mountain homes. However they were eventually defeated and now they hide away. (No earth influence)

Halflings - They grow their own trees so the wood elves let them sell lumber. They are the only source to get wood for housing or other things like that. (Generally most housing is made from metal or stone) They also sell tobacco and other smokables. They also retain some of their fantasy roots, a love for food and drink.

Gremlins (Also known as Foxilian) - They are a race of primitive but lovable fox people. They stand around a foot tall, thin boned. And they love everything shiny. Their society is based around, who ever brings back the biggest and best "shiny" gets all the respect. They lived in a small cave system in the desert (ancient hollowed out granite under the sand dunes.) They are kind of a myth to the desert dwelling travelers. They will robe them blind, but take the oddest things. A rock, some string, or the case of ale they were hauling. They attack by means of summoned sand storms, which gain in power the more gremlins there are in the area. They feed off each others power. They have also been known to give water to stranded travelers, right after they steal their stuff. In most cases no one ever sees them coming or while they do their work.

Dragon Riders - On the one hand they are half breeds, half dragon and half human. They live in a society of aristocrats, lords and ladies, high society. However they also play the police and protection force. The rider has the ability use strong elemental magic and do does the dragon they ride. Some combining their elements for stronger attacks. They are at war with the empire but their numbers are small, so they stick to hit and run tactics. Their dragon Lords are able to control multiple elements and transform into full dragons. They take on the role of kings and queens. (No earth influence but has a bit of Pern mixed in.)

Fog Walkers - Large (10 to 13 feet tall) yeti/ gorilla styled primitives, also not on the map. They weave jungle junk (leaves, branches and vines) into their fur to camouflage themselves from the native baboon hordes that enjoy eating them.

The Taint - The taint is the main evil force in the world. A long long time ago, there was two races in the galaxy, one learned to ascend and became god like. They actually became the gods the races listed above worship. While the other old race tried to force ascension, rather than becoming wisps of energy, they became bacteria. Broken down into single celled organisms that are all connected. They are pure evil, tainting and corrupting every one that gets infected. Their goal is to spread. They can infect objects as well and any one that touches it will be corrupted. They love kids, turning them into serial killers or other crazy masterminds. Adults they use hard and throw away.

The Gods
The Dark Lady - Controls everything below the surface and anything the light cant touch. She isn't evil, however, just dark. Resembles a young attractive woman.
Magic - her magic is stealth, fear, illusions and she admires assassins the most.
Healer Type - Necromantic voodoo type healing. Potions, hexes and soul transference. Can sacrifice someone else to resurrect the dead.
People she influences - Dwarves, Dark Elves, Thieves and Assassins
Champion - Undead assassin - Can shadow step, and feed on others life energy.

The Mother (or Old Lady) - The balancer, she controls everything that grows on the surface and values life. Resembles an old lady.
Magic - Nature magic, plant growing, conjuring elements, and healing. She likes the wood elves the most.
Healer Type - Healers that follow her have the ability to take the pain of the wounded into themselves. Then they transfer some of their own life in to the wounded. They can resurrect the dead at the cost of their own life.
People she influences - Wood Elves, Barbarians, Hobbits
Champion - Druid - Ability to resurrect and heal without injuring herself, and strong control over the elements around her. Can transform into multiple animal forms for longer periods of time.

The Light - The protector, Protects the planet from asteroids and meteors. Resembles an old wizard.
Magic - Holy power. Localized time reversal.
Healer Type - Can resurrect the dead without killing the caster. Can create shield of light that reflects damage.
People he influences - High elves, Humans, Dragons Riders, Paladins
Champion - Top Dragon Lord - Super intelligent, can read any language. Has mastered three of the four elements. Dragon abilities are stronger then average.



Now the world at least would have been named by the gods or the really old dragons. But it has to be something pronounceable. Like i said above i have tried a few random name generators but nothing ever sounds right. So I'm curious how do you guys come up with the names? Is there a process that you use?

Generally when i do character names i just throw letters around until something sounds decent. I tried doing that for this but I'm not even sure what region or names of this type should sound like.

Anyone have any tips for naming?-map-regions.jpg Anyone have any tips for naming?-map-races.jpgAnyone have any tips for naming?-map.jpg

I have attached rough pictures to show where stuff is. Anyway thanks for any tips, or help. Just writing all this out gives me a little more direction. Maybe in each racial area i can base the names after the earth cultures they represent. Or other fantasy type things.
Attached Thumbnails
Anyone have any tips for naming?-map-regions.jpg   Anyone have any tips for naming?-map-races.jpg   Anyone have any tips for naming?-map.jpg  
]]> Toponymy and Linguistics lokiie1984 http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=22981 place names? http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=22671&goto=newpost Tue, 19 Mar 2013 01:46:50 GMT Do you guys use topographical name conventions like those in the UK; do your names describe the place? Do you guys use topographical name conventions like those in the UK; do your names describe the place? ]]> Toponymy and Linguistics theconlanger http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=22671