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Thread: Creative Commons licensing questions

  1. #11
      Redrobes is offline
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    @Mid: Yes your right, I might have to specify or backtrack a little. If you publish under a CC license and use the SA bit then to do so you would need to have permission from all the sources of image that you used to make up your final that this final including the sources are going to be shared downwards in a CC share alike manner. Therefore, if done legally, the sources must have been given that permission and is therefore open source.

    But yes, without SA you are right CC without it is not so different from full copyright - esp CC with ND. So I was referring to the SA bit really but I take your point tho.

    I really think that CGTextures will affirm that they will not license it under CC SA even if the texture cannot be extracted as a stand alone image even if, as I am also convinced, that is the intention of the author. The issue is legal mines that he cant be bothered to tread over. I just expect him to point or quote the existing text and link to the FAQ.

    I think his site should make it a little clearer about this point tho - it took me months of using them before I realized this.

  2. #12
      tilt is offline
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    I mostly make and use my own, but have used some textures by others here and there... I've been leaning on the free for use for private and commercial projects - but I've never thought that me making my maps CC could pose a problem.
    regs tilt
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    Works under CC licence unless mentioned otherwise

  3. #13
    Guild Master Gracious Donor Midgardsormr's Avatar
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    Okay, I've gone into the SA legalese now, too. The only difference between that and the more permissive Attribution license is the bit about adaptations requiring the same or a compatible license. Here is the relevant bit of legal code:

    Quote Originally Posted by Creative Commons by-sa

    3. License Grant. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright) license to exercise the rights in the Work as stated below:

    a. to Reproduce the Work, to incorporate the Work into one or more Collections, and to Reproduce the Work as incorporated in the Collections;
    b. to create and Reproduce Adaptations provided that any such Adaptation, including any translation in any medium, takes reasonable steps to clearly label, demarcate or otherwise identify that changes were made to the original Work. For example, a translation could be marked "The original work was translated from English to Spanish," or a modification could indicate "The original work has been modified.";
    c. to Distribute and Publicly Perform the Work including as incorporated in Collections; and,
    d. to Distribute and Publicly Perform Adaptations.

    4. Restrictions. The license granted in Section 3 above is expressly made subject to and limited by the following restrictions:

    a. You may Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work only under the terms of this License. You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform. You may not offer or impose any terms on the Work that restrict the terms of this License or the ability of the recipient of the Work to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the License. You may not sublicense the Work. You must keep intact all notices that refer to this License and to the disclaimer of warranties with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform. When You Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work, You may not impose any effective technological measures on the Work that restrict the ability of a recipient of the Work from You to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the License. This Section 4(a) applies to the Work as incorporated in a Collection, but this does not require the Collection apart from the Work itself to be made subject to the terms of this License. If You create a Collection, upon notice from any Licensor You must, to the extent practicable, remove from the Collection any credit as required by Section 4(c), as requested. If You create an Adaptation, upon notice from any Licensor You must, to the extent practicable, remove from the Adaptation any credit as required by Section 4(c), as requested.

    b. You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 US)); (iv) a Creative Commons Compatible License. If you license the Adaptation under one of the licenses mentioned in (iv), you must comply with the terms of that license. If you license the Adaptation under the terms of any of the licenses mentioned in (i), (ii) or (iii) (the "Applicable License"), you must comply with the terms of the Applicable License generally and the following provisions: (I) You must include a copy of, or the URI for, the Applicable License with every copy of each Adaptation You Distribute or Publicly Perform; (II) You may not offer or impose any terms on the Adaptation that restrict the terms of the Applicable License or the ability of the recipient of the Adaptation to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the Applicable License; (III) You must keep intact all notices that refer to the Applicable License and to the disclaimer of warranties with every copy of the Work as included in the Adaptation You Distribute or Publicly Perform; (IV) when You Distribute or Publicly Perform the Adaptation, You may not impose any effective technological measures on the Adaptation that restrict the ability of a recipient of the Adaptation from You to exercise the rights granted to that recipient under the terms of the Applicable License. This Section 4(b) applies to the Adaptation as incorporated in a Collection, but this does not require the Collection apart from the Adaptation itself to be made subject to the terms of the Applicable License.
    There is nothing I can find in any Creative Commons license that dictates that anything other than the licensed artwork be made available to end users for the purposes of derivative works. Share Alike only affects derivative work; it has no bearing on the source material. Unless someone can prove otherwise, I think there is no reason to believe that CC is an open source license, and it is therefore not bound by the restriction in the CGTextures license.

    To the question of whether "open source" is adequately defined for purposes other that software: 'The “source code” for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. “Object code” means any non-source form of a work.' (The GNU General Public License). If we're talking visual digital artwork instead of software, that would mean the Photoshop file (or Gimp, CC3, Dundjinni, Drawplus, etc) from which the final image (jpeg, png, svg, etc) is exported. The Photoshop file is the "preferred form of the work for making modifications" and the final export is object code, as defined by the GNU. In fact, this works fairly well since a digital image is simply code at its most basic level. Therefore, I don't think that the use of the term open source when applied to digital artwork is metaphorical at all.

    With that in mind, it is clear (to me, at any rate) that there is nothing in Creative Commons that compels me to share my Photoshop file with someone who wishes to create an adaptation. Whatever form of the art I choose to distribute is the one that is licensed, and no more. Someone who wishes to make an adaptation must use only the pixels I provided—the license grants no rights to the CGTextures files I used, nor to any brushes, scripts, templates, etc I may have used in the creation of the work.

    On a related topic, I wonder if anyone else is watching this controversy going on with ASCAP claiming that CC, the Electronic Freedom Frontier, and related groups are anti-copyright?
    Bryan Ray, visual effects artist
    http://www.bryanray.name

  4. #14
      tilt is offline
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    I hope that some time down this thread (or actually in the FAQ) someone can explain in common english what all these things mean for us cartographers. What licenses that would be prudent to choose - depending on what you want and what we should be aware of concerning incorporationg textures and elements in our works. Perhaps supplied with an URL list of sites that we can use from without problems
    Also what we should say/write with our work if needed
    regs tilt
    :: My art on Deviant Art :: My mapping blog tilts fantasy maps :: My work Catapult - Perry & Gehrke - EasyTruckIT ::
    :: Finished Maps :: WIP Cartographia - Breakwater -Market -Lands of Twilight -Battle City :: Competion maps Iron Giant ::
    :: FREE Tiles - Compasses :: Other Taking a commision - Copyright & Creative Commons ::
    Works under CC licence unless mentioned otherwise

  5. #15
    Guild Master Gracious Donor Midgardsormr's Avatar
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    The common english is available at the Creative Commons site. I'll parse the above legal code for you, though:

    3. This license lets people use your work in the following ways, free of charge:
    a. They may copy it. They may bundle it in a collection (like a gallery or anthology). They may copy the collection.
    b. As long as they tell people what they did to it, they may change it or modify it.
    c. They may give it to whomever they like or display it in public.
    d. They may give their adaptation to anyone or display it in public.

    4. If someone does any of those things, here are the limits under which they must operate:
    a. They don't get any rights not given to them by this license. They must always provide a link or reference about where they got it and who made it. They must include any notice about the license that you included. They can't put additional restrictions on the license—everyone must be free to use it the same way they did.
    b. If they make an adaptation, the adaptation must have this same license, or one that is compatible with it. (This is the "share alike" clause)

    Answering the questions at the Creative Commons site will cause it to guide you to the license you should use, but for the purposes of disseminating the knowledge, here's a breakdown of what each element does:

    Attribution (BY): You must always be credited as the creator of the piece.
    No Derivatives (ND): Modifying the work is not permitted.
    Non Commercial (NC): The work cannot be used for commercial gain.
    Share Alike (SA): Any derivative works have to use the same license as the original did.

    SA and ND are incompatible—if derivative works are not allowed, then Share Alike doesn't do anything.
    BY is mandatory. Without it, the work will be public domain—no rights reserved.
    SA will cause NC to cascade—Since derivative works must use the same license, those adaptations cannot be used commercially, either.

    I'd recommend that any map you license should have visible in the image the CC logo(s), the url of the Creative Commons license descriptions: http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/, your name or pseudonym (the licenses do not require the artist's real name, only a "Uniform Resource Identifier," usually the web address where the original lives), a url where you can be reached (here, your own web site, Deviant Art, etc, or your email address) and the date. Additionally, if you have the ability to add metadata, it's a good idea to put the licensing information there, along with your contact information.

    If you choose not to license an image, a copyright notice with your name and "All rights reserved" should be visible in the image, and the metadata should also reflect it.

    These steps will go a long way toward preventing accidental theft like what was seen at RPGLife.
    Bryan Ray, visual effects artist
    http://www.bryanray.name

  6. #16
      tilt is offline
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    thank you Midgaardsormr - that's clear speaking ... have some rep for that
    regs tilt
    :: My art on Deviant Art :: My mapping blog tilts fantasy maps :: My work Catapult - Perry & Gehrke - EasyTruckIT ::
    :: Finished Maps :: WIP Cartographia - Breakwater -Market -Lands of Twilight -Battle City :: Competion maps Iron Giant ::
    :: FREE Tiles - Compasses :: Other Taking a commision - Copyright & Creative Commons ::
    Works under CC licence unless mentioned otherwise

  7. #17
      Redrobes is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midgardsormr View Post
    ...there is nothing in Creative Commons that compels me to share my Photoshop file with someone who wishes to create an adaptation. Whatever form of the art I choose to distribute is the one that is licensed, and no more. Someone who wishes to make an adaptation must use only the pixels I provided—the license grants no rights to the CGTextures files I used, nor to any brushes, scripts, templates, etc I may have used in the creation of the work.
    I believe that is correct. Your licensing the image (pixels) only. But you have to be able to sub license any bit of it that you are using via a license from someone else and I think that is where the problem is with the CGTextures. They are not giving you the ability to sub license it any of their work - just use it. If you created the whole image yourself so you own the right to license it or parts of it are public domain and have no rights or you have permission to sub license the copyright parts in that manner from that copyright holder, or you have specific permission as granted through the SA bit of CC from the copyright parts you used then you can.

  8. #18
    Guild Master Gracious Donor Midgardsormr's Avatar
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    Ah, breakthrough! Thanks Redrobes; I finally get what you're saying.

    I dug into the CGTextures FAQ, by the way, and he is defining Creative Commons as an open source license:
    Quote Originally Posted by CGTextures.com
    May I use these textures in my Open Source (Creative Commons, GPL, etc) project?
    No. These textures may not be used in Open-Source projects. The licenses are not compatible. Almost all Open-Source licenses allow redistribution of the materials, and redistribution is not allowed for these textures.
    I disagree with the definition of CC as open source, as I think I've demonstrated, and this language is not in the license itself, but obviously his intent is to exclude CC licensing, so we should abide by it. That leaves me with the problem of what to do with Mennin's Hallow, since it is not legal for it to remain as-is in the CWBP. (grrr…)

    I am going to put some more thought into this. I think it's possible to craft a license similar in effect to CC that still satisfies the CGTextures license. No help for the CWBP, but it might be useful elsewhere.
    Bryan Ray, visual effects artist
    http://www.bryanray.name

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