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Thread: I need to complain

  1. #1
    Guild Member TheSilentOne's Avatar
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    Help I need to complain

    I feel the need to complain about somehing: it's my second week here on cartographers guild, I followed some tutorials and done a few maps. Now, I feel that the community is not helping new mappers like myself enough. Sure, there are tutorials and they are great, but there are very few constructive comments to maps done by newbies. Usually it's one line of comment, like people who comment only do it for boosting their number of posts, and the comments allways tell you what a good job everyone is doing. Well, everyone is not doing a good job, there is allways room for improvement, no matter how good your map is.
    I have posted 2 maps, they are not good maps, but I have had a total of only 3(yes, three) comments in 4 days and they hardly helped me improve my maps. I would like someone to tell me what I am doing wrong(I am sure there are plenty of things). I think that the help given to new mappers should be more active, not only through tutorials, that is all.
    Thank you.

  2. #2
      Gidde is offline
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    It might help if you ask specific questions (i.e., "I'm stuck on this facet of my map. I think it's a problem and I can't figure out what it is"). I can't speak for the rest of the guild, but I often have a hard time doing anything but encouraging new folks for their first few maps, until I figure out their style and what they're trying to accomplish. The end goal is, after all, a map that you like and can be proud of. If I jump in and start tearing your work apart, you may get discouraged while I'm not actually helping you.

    Also, keep in mind that this is a forum where we all come, in our own free time, to learn and help others learn. Sometimes a map doesn't get many comments; others grab people and get a ton. If you hang around, trust me, you will learn by osmosis, and you will have maps that folks get drawn to and comment upon.

    Another good tactic is to pay it forward; make comments and suggestions on others' maps. I've learned a lot that way, seeing things I want to incorporate and avoid while I go through and apply the "do unto others" rule - usually while I await feedback on my own project.

  3. #3
      ravells is offline
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    I can only repeat what Gidde has said.

    If you want brutal analysis, say so in your WIP posts. If you want someone to hold your hand and tell you how to get to where you want to go, say so in your WIP posts. That is no guarantee that anyone will respond- you have to engage people. To expect this forum to be unpaid servants for your sole beneift and to provide constant feedback on your progress is a little optimistic.

  4. #4
      Ascension is offline
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    Well your first map was a ZombieNirvana tut, I know the style but not ever watched the tuts so I can't help ya there. It looks fine to me but I don't know what more you want from it. Your second map has been up for a day - give it some time. Sometimes my maps don't get any comments after a week so at that point I assume my map to be perfect and move on Third, you posted about pirated Photoshop and while that may cool to do on some forums we try to keep things legit here to cover our own butts...we have a great many dealings with numerous companies and professionals in the fantasy genre. Granted that you probably didn't know that but now ya do. And fourth, it helps if we know where you want to go with your maps. Just saying "critique this" doesn't help anyone and, from past experiences, only serves to alienate new guys...so we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Once you've done 10 or so maps you'll start to develop your own style and things really pick up. The learning process is always a tough one but stick with it and keep plugging away at it and you'll be doing great maps in a few months. No one ever produces the Mona Lisa on the first try...if you think someone did then you don't know about their own tribulations to get to that point of where they make their first posting. I spent 3 years fiddling about on my own before I ever posted anything. So buck up, camper. Things aint as bad as they seem.
    If the radiance of a thousand suns was to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...I am become Death, the Shatterer of worlds.
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  5. #5
      Jaxilon is offline
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    I will also add, at least for me, I have not been able to keep up with all the new members and maps being posted, it's like an avalanche. I have my own business and this time of year I work myself to exhaustion. Wait till winter, I'm on cruise control then and can stay up all night. Anytime I am working on a map I can't keep up with anything else because I won't make any progress.

    I know what it's like to want feedback that helps you to improve as well as keeps you motivated. I didn't get a lot on my last challenge entry, maybe because nobody knew what I was doing except for a couple old timers like me There were only 3 people in total who commented on my challenge entry. (Sorta makes you think you started up the wrong tree, hehe. Those times you have to just drive through to the end.) I have never watched a zombienirvana tutorial either so I didn't know if you had done exactly what was expected or not. If I had said you needed to change an aspect that was exactly as the tutorial meant for it to be I would just look like a dope. Also, I was still in the midst of cramming my challenge entry in so I didn't have a lot of time.

    There are a few folks around here who seem to keep up with everything but I'm not one of them. I can keep up with about 4 threads, LOL. Don't give up, do what the others mentioned and let folks know you want to improve as well as ask about anything that doesn't look right to you, that way they can focus on the specific if they are in a hurry.

    I know if I post something and don't get a reply I always figure it musta sucked or just failed to hit a chord in anyone. No biggie, just move on to the next project and try another style, see where that takes me. If it kept happening I might start to feel a little bummed out. That's art though, it's so subjective you really have to grow thick skin - the problem is most artsy people don't have real thick skin - at least to start with.

    PS. I don't know if it's always like this but it seems we have been have a steady flow of 2-4 people joining every day. I just hope our admins can handle it all.
    “When it’s over and you look in the mirror, did you do the best that you were capable of? If so, the score does not matter. But if you find that you did your best you were capable of, you will find it to your liking.” -John Wooden

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  6. #6
      Ascension is offline
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    Good point about sheer volume of members, Jax. I've pretty much completely given up on keeping up with all of the "hellos" and let Steel and Neon handle that. I try to keep my ramblings contained to trying to help folks but sometimes someone slips through the cracks.
    If the radiance of a thousand suns was to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...I am become Death, the Shatterer of worlds.
    -J. Robert Oppenheimer (father of the atom bomb) alluding to The Bhagavad Gita (Chapter 11, Verse 32)


    My Maps ~ My Brushes ~ My Tutorials ~ My Challenge Maps

  7. #7
      NeonKnight is offline
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    I must echo Jax, when I first came to the guild I was one of maybe 30 people, little traffic, and we were quieter. Thus I was able to see a lot more. Now we are bigger and the traffic/posts in a day is close to what we often had at that time after 3 or 4 days. *whew* Add to that the sheer variety of mapping methods/Software, it is easier for me to relegate my comments/critiques to software I know: Profantasy's Campaign Cartographer.

    As a result I may 'pop' into a thread, have a look and if others more familiar to the software comment, I leave it at that, but any questions I see for CC3 and it's software I try my best to answer
    Daniel the Neon Knight: Campaign Cartographer User

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  8. #8
      tilt is offline
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    I can only agree with the above comments - give it time- post some more, you'll learn more everytime. We've all tried to pour our heart and soul and lots of hours in a map only to get no real feed back - thats the game. I think however that telling people what you want to hear and how "tough love" you want would be a good idea... I also tend to applaud new mappers for just posting as I know they have learn a lot of techniques and I wouldn't want to discourage them from posting more. ... so hang in there and ask - and we'll help
    regs tilt
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  9. #9
    Guild Artisan Gracious Donor LonewandererD's Avatar
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    I know I'm jumping in late here but that kind of backs up my point. As much time as the community actually devotes to the Guild we do have lives outside fo the guild and so cannot be here everyday. Just today I've cycled throguh five new maps, now imagine what it would be like for people who only come in once every week, they simply don't have the time to view and critique on every map. Also, I've found that a nice way to get people to get a little help around here is to give some in return, when people give me critiques or rep I always try to give some back. Also, this is just me but maybe other's do it to, if someone has already said what I wanted to say unless I can expand on it I don't critique, it's not going to help an aweful lot to just repeat what others had said.

    -D-
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  10. #10
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    I am just getting started here myself, but I do know that you have to give your audience something to work with. Ask questions and if you have very specific things you need help with, be very specific. The beginning of the ability to learn is the ability to ask. Instead, you come here and complain that the community isn't doing enough for you. I have been operating here about as long as you, and the community has been very helpful and very welcoming to me. I think its because I engage them in a dialog, instead of expecting handouts. Contribute to the community and it will give back to you more than you give to it. Even if you feel you don't know a whole lot, surely you can add something. Part of learning is exposing those weak areas anyway. But please don't come into the General Discussion board and post a complaint thread. The complaint isn't well founded. Complaining about failure to receive free advice and critique just makes it look like you thrive on attention.

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