Thread: Ticket to ride 10.000$ map competition

Wow, they're quick at Boardgame geek:

I posted:

The terms and conditions say:

Originally Posted by ravells

' In consideration for reviewing your submission, you hereby warrant that you hold, and assign and convey, all rights in the submission (including copyrights, trademark rights, and patent rights) to Sponsor free and clear of all liens, claims, encumbrances or further payment obligations.'
So does this mean that if you don't win, Days of Wonder are free to make your version into a game without any payment?
Not sure if this has already been discussed, but if so, my apologies.

The replies were (the second from Days of Wonder):

Originally Posted by W. Eric Martin

In theory, yes, but that's unlikely to happen. When Days of Wonder held its Small World design contest in 2009, it ended up handing out more awards than originally announced, including a publishing contract for what became the Tales and Legends expansion in 2010. This statement is more of a CYA clause so that if you submit a TtR map of, say, Manhattan, then DoW later releases a TtR: New York expansion, you will have no grounds for suing the publisher.

Originally Posted by Eric Hautemont

The short answer: Yes, you're correct (though this would make us look like jerks and hardly qualify as a good PR move then, eh? ) The more detailed explanation, courtesy of our legal friend and counsel: We receive numerous submissions and continue to develop our own ideas internally. Because certain evolutionary concepts in a game are relatively obvious, if we did not have language like this in our agreement, we would subject DOW to spurious claims. We respect that this could make some people decide not to submit their ideas, but I can assure you that DOW conducts itself with the utmost integrity and prides itself on the relationship it maintains with the game development community.
Hope this helps answer your question.
Eric @ DoW

I might have a go at this after all! (Although I still don't have a ghost of a chance of winning!).

I do understand their sentiment - but not all companies have their moral compass in order, so it would be nice if the industry leaders would show the way and respect that artist live by their copyright. I'm sure lawyers could find another frasing that don't deprive the artist of the copyright.

Basically, they're keeping the intellectual property as if you were an employee who developed this new killer thing. The language says that you can't sue them but if you were to go and develop your map/board into it's own game then they could turn around and sue you since they have the copyright now. So, if you just want to do this as a fun thing to experiment with and not really ever get anything from it then, by all means, go ahead. If you do win then you get some cash but if you don't win then it's gone baby gone and you have to come up with a whole new idea and map/game. It's a good portfolio-filler, though.

Call me bitter but art competitions of any kind... no matter the prize it still always feels like getting dressed up for a date and then your left standing there in a huge room full of other people while some guy picked based on his personal taste :/

On the other hand they are fun to do and hey if all the work is displayed that free advertising.

To be fair, you probably couldn't publish your game anyway, since the rules are copyrighted. You'd have to rework it considerably in order to make it sufficiently different as to be legal.
I do agree, though; having all rights to non-winning entries convey to Days of Wonder is a little shaky ethically. A better solution would be an indemnification clause: If you submit your work, you agree not to sue if Days of Wonder later produces a similar game. That would protect both parties. It isn't in the interest of the lawyers to protect anybody who hasn't paid them, though.

It is also worth considering that just because a company conducts itself ethically now, that does not necessarily mean that it will continue to do so in the future. Or that Hasbro won't assimilate it.

I think I understand why they put it that way and it does make sense just so they are covered. I'm kind of with Ravells. I am interested in doing it and doubt I'll win anyway. I doubt also that whatever I come up with will be the best idea I will ever have so I'm kind of leaning towards it atm. Of course, the way I'm being crushed for time lately probably means I won't get around to it.

This does bring up something I would like to see however added to our requests forum: I think it would be good to have copyright explanation in the sticky because I think folks who post quite often don't know what they are asking for when they say they want copyright. What most people want is to be able to use it for themselves and do not plan to try selling it. Even if they did they really don't need copyright they need reproduction rights. Anyway, copyright sucks imo. It just goes to show that people can't be trusted.

Good idea, we should have a copyright and creative Commons thread that explains what it's all about. I'll try to cook something up

Cool, while you're there, could you amend the Mapping Request sticky to cover of the copyright thing in more detail please, tilt (or if it's very long maybe put it in a separate sticky)?

cheers

Ravs

Good link and post Clercon and I agree with all the sentiments posted here. Its a crowd sourcing map with a generous prize. Its a good and noble offer they are making but one which has the potential to be abused. So yeah, just go into this with your eyes open. I hope they get some good maps out of it but I don't have the game (or time really) to try.