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Thread: Here goes the (not so) silly question! Sizes and dimensions!

  1. #11
      jfrazierjr is offline
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    Another thing to think about with scales is that they don't always need to be in "distance". Now, if your going to do "time to travel", you then have to consider some basic questions. Example, two locations may be exactly the same distance, but the travel time could be greatly different. For example, it takes 12 days to get from Ravensboro to Hillcrest by horse. But takes 22 days to get to Irongate even though they are the exact same distance as the crow fly. The difference is that Ravensboro and Hillcrest are both on fairly flat land, but Irongate is fairly deep into the mountains and this slows travel quite a bit. Of course, on this type of map, it would make more sense to put travel time on each route instead of a central location since it's so variable.
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      Morgan is offline
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    So perhaps a good "rule" is precision wherever possible, but without compromising aesthetics. Yes, for a fantasy map that does make sense. And, and Redrobes points out, it also depends on the scale of the map. If I'm drawing a city map, I should be precise with a river width. But in a world map, that same river could also be very small or not be there at all. Giving undeciphrable information is not to give information at all, so perhaps some things may be omitted for the sake of clarity.
    Also, nice thought, jfrazierjr, with the travel time routes, but I think that would only work with organized routes. Otherwise, one still needs to convert travel time depending on travel method. Still, a map that shows the "standard" routes would be cool.

    Lukc (and Redrobes, if he is the author), is there any chance a digital copy of the map could be linked here somewhere? Would love to see it!
    Given the choice:
    wheter to rule a corrupt and failing empire
    or to challenge the Fates for another throw, a better throw against one's destiny...
    what was a King to do?
    But does anyone truly have a choice?
    One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate.
    And thus defy the tyrannous stars.

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      jfrazierjr is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
    So perhaps a good "rule" is precision wherever possible, but without compromising aesthetics. Yes, for a fantasy map that does make sense. And, and Redrobes points out, it also depends on the scale of the map. If I'm drawing a city map, I should be precise with a river width. But in a world map, that same river could also be very small or not be there at all. Giving undeciphrable information is not to give information at all, so perhaps some things may be omitted for the sake of clarity.
    Yea, but with a fantasy map, I would not sweat it to much. remember, people have existed for thousands of years with nonstandard measurement units, until the past few hundred years or so. Again, unless you are working on a topographical map, I would say just be roughly approximate unless it REALLY matters to the story(say, for example "miners" trying to dig into a vault with the police barracks on one side and a river on the other... can't stray more than a couple of inches either way or your toast....


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan View Post
    Also, nice thought, jfrazierjr, with the travel time routes, but I think that would only work with organized routes. Otherwise, one still needs to convert travel time depending on travel method. Still, a map that shows the "standard" routes would be cool.

    Lukc (and Redrobes, if he is the author), is there any chance a digital copy of the map could be linked here somewhere? Would love to see it!
    Heh.. yea.. like perhaps hand drawn notes or something. Some of the past Challenge entries (several years old) have concepts like this. I would high encourage everyone to look at the past challenges, they are a goldmine of inspiration.... I can't remember who did it, but someone(2-3 years ago) did a map while was as much journal as map and it was totally freaking hilarious, and in multiple handwriting from the point of view of the characters where they got a map from someone, and traveled to the locations and found out stuff was not quite as presented on the map....
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      Morgan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrazierjr View Post
    Yea, but with a fantasy map, I would not sweat it to much. remember, people have existed for thousands of years with nonstandard measurement units, until the past few hundred years or so. Again, unless you are working on a topographical map, I would say just be roughly approximate unless it REALLY matters to the story(say, for example "miners" trying to dig into a vault with the police barracks on one side and a river on the other... can't stray more than a couple of inches either way or your toast....
    Yes, I wrote wherever possible, but I meant accuracy with "groups of features", and a good degree of approximation towards the general scale. For example, if river A is half a mile wide, and river B is a mile wide, I'd want to draw river B twice as wide as A, even if their widths are not in scale with the full map. So I get the information that B is wider that A even with a quick glance, but I'll never need to really measure it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfrazierjr View Post
    Heh.. yea.. like perhaps hand drawn notes or something. Some of the past Challenge entries (several years old) have concepts like this. I would high encourage everyone to look at the past challenges, they are a goldmine of inspiration.... I can't remember who did it, but someone(2-3 years ago) did a map while was as much journal as map and it was totally freaking hilarious, and in multiple handwriting from the point of view of the characters where they got a map from someone, and traveled to the locations and found out stuff was not quite as presented on the map....
    Thanks for the hint! I will definitely go and dig in older threads. I'm very curious, especially for the journal map you've talked about!
    Given the choice:
    wheter to rule a corrupt and failing empire
    or to challenge the Fates for another throw, a better throw against one's destiny...
    what was a King to do?
    But does anyone truly have a choice?
    One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate.
    And thus defy the tyrannous stars.

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      Gidde is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrazierjr View Post
    Heh.. yea.. like perhaps hand drawn notes or something. Some of the past Challenge entries (several years old) have concepts like this. I would high encourage everyone to look at the past challenges, they are a goldmine of inspiration.... I can't remember who did it, but someone(2-3 years ago) did a map while was as much journal as map and it was totally freaking hilarious, and in multiple handwriting from the point of view of the characters where they got a map from someone, and traveled to the locations and found out stuff was not quite as presented on the map....
    It was Coyotemax. God I loved that map. The challenge thread is here, but the last WIP and the finished map thread attachment are both missing

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      Morgan is offline
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    Oh, my! That is sooooo cool! :O
    Given the choice:
    wheter to rule a corrupt and failing empire
    or to challenge the Fates for another throw, a better throw against one's destiny...
    what was a King to do?
    But does anyone truly have a choice?
    One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate.
    And thus defy the tyrannous stars.

  7. #17
      Lukc is offline
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    Agreed! coolness!

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      Veldehar is offline
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    I entirely forgot about that map... no idea how! A twisted bit of genius.

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      Veldehar is offline
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    And now some commentary more related to the actual topic, LOL. I think I experience a little dichotomy on this topic. As a player and even GM, my expectations are fairly loose. Now I have experienced moments where when trying to measure things on two maps of the same region at two different scales where they were miles off, which was an entertaining debate with players as to whether their short cut would be fast enough to cut the bad guys off at the pass, but this wasn't a real problem, it was more humorous. So as a player/GM I'm not expecting meticulous accuracy. That being said, a completely artistic map would give the anal-retentive GM in me the heeby-jeebies.

    When making maps I have to combat the meticulous accuracy desire. If I had my way I would have an entire earth-sized map more accurate than google-earth! and artsy to boot, but reality sets in, dang it. If I had won a 500 million dollar lottery, I might just hire that done, but alas, I did not win that. I am now learning to deal with my own limitations in PS mapping, but at some points I will just hire maps done, hello Mr. Roberts! because I am much more forgiving of other people's work, nothing I work on is ever done, LOL. And there are artists far more talented than me, I am more writer with a cartography addiction.

  10. #20
      Morgan is offline
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    I must say, I quite agree. I am a writer wannabe myself, and I think that the artistic side comes first. I asked the question because, being new to cartography, but eager to learn, I wanted an idea on what I should point at. Given the fact that we are talking about fantasy maps. Of course, in that strange world called reality, perhaps maps need to be more precise.
    As for the combat parenthesis, I also agree if we talk about strategic combats like D&D, but I'm not really a fan. I prefer narrative combat, even if sometimes it is less accurate. To give an example, combat rules of the World of Darkness roleplaying game (the old edition). So I don't really use a map when fighting. But I share your point of view for D&D like combat systems!
    Given the choice:
    wheter to rule a corrupt and failing empire
    or to challenge the Fates for another throw, a better throw against one's destiny...
    what was a King to do?
    But does anyone truly have a choice?
    One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate.
    And thus defy the tyrannous stars.

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