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Thread: Need some map(s) made

  1. #1
      Durakken is offline
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    Default Need some map(s) made

    Commission

    Paid?: might mean that you may make payment depending on the quality of the work or if the map is for a commercial project and payment is dependent on the project making sales.
    Basically... I need several maps made for several different styles and projects and it's sorta long term thing that may or may not make money, but I'm hoping they will... eventually and if they do you'd be reimbursed. I would hope that we could come to some deal where if it was necessary to pay a specific amount that it would be a flat rate paid from the "profits" of the work that uses your maps, or possibly a straight percentage (I only prefer flat rate because it is overall easier) that would work something like we agree on a flat price and then if that product makes money you, and the other possible help, would get paid before i ever took any of the money.


    Subject

    Ok here's the tricky part. I need long term people for at least 1 project and possibly a few others... where in we would be collaborating to fill in the map(s) as I go along in the story. Obviously I need to be able to put things where I need them to be, but I'm brain a bit brain dead on layout and such and i rely heavily on what is more historically accurate and utilitarianistic design. That's not exactly what I want so I need someone better equipped at laying these things out how they might really be so it will become a process of me feeding you information to add to the map and your map giving me information to work from to be consistent and more accurate...if that makes sense, at least for this main project, where as the other projects I might just want you to develop based on what I give you and then I fill in what I need from there. I don't know quite how to describe it...

    Main project -
    Basically I'm writing a novel or several based in one universe that takes place over the course of hundreds of thousands of years with the rise and fall of civilizations and different living styles, so the first step is creating the base "world" map. Then a map that has the layout of the regions and major cities/areas at different points in it's history. And then i also will likely need a few cities/areas laid out... only 1 big one comes to mind, 1 moderate one, and 4 or 5 minor cities, come to mind at the moment...

    2ndary project -
    This one I don't quite have worked out what I want, but the general idea behind this project is to make a game, but seeing as I don't have the resources to quite do what I want I'm going to start with writing a lot of it out. It consists of maps of space stations, ships, and planets. Because of the way the game progresses I need maps of planets and perhaps in the future some major areas mapped out...

    tertiary project -
    I may need a map of a "unique" city for this project... basically it's an internet virtual hub city and i haven't a crisp idea of it in my head. This more or less just needs a map just if it ever becomes a game like it's supposed to... it might also be nice to have a reference point, but I haven't done much thought on this idea yet so I'm just mentioning it for if someone has any ideas for such a thing.


    The scales of the maps will obviously be different because planets are different sizes and such...

    Style

    primary
    It's post-apocalyptic high fantasy science fantasy craziness... It has technology to make modern maps so I would really like a map that is aesthetically appealing that looks somewhat more realistic and then also other maps that are more informational type. "fantasy" style maps while I don't really care for them, are workable, but i prefer a more modern style

    Quality & Size

    [Professional / semi professional] <- Don't know what this means as professional isn't really a quality check ^.^
    [Required for print / web] <- for the primary the maps will likely be used for both print and web
    [Dimensions of map: x inches by y inches (or pixels)] <- I prefer as big as possible or as big as is sensible as starting big and shrinking is easier than the opposite
    [Raster / Vector] <- I don't know the difference as it applies here. I don't have software that deals in vectors as far as i know, but considering this should be a long term partnership I don't see how this couldn't be figured out later.


    Time Constraints

    Currently there are no time constraints on any of these, but that may change if my projects do really kick off, but if not... I'll give a general time frame i would it by ahead of time by a lo probably so there shouldn't be any real rush ever. As my plans are loose and all currently I can push back when more time is needed for the most part as there is more than enough in my head and projects to turn to in the mean time.

    Copyright

    I would like copyright of the map.
    I will have the right to use the image for commercial purposes, the artist will have the right to exhibit the image as part of his portfolio but not to exploit it for commercial gain.
    I understand the reluctance to enter into this type of thing, but the fact is this is a singular full project and I need full ownership of everything that has to do with this project. I have thought of other ways to make up for my short coming I've pointed out and while they aren't preferable I'd much rather go with them than give anyone the chance to screw up these particular ideas. And I simply can't pay for what i need done right now, and all I can do is give my word is that if you work with me I will not screw you and if i get money you'll get money. So please look past the money and the copyright issue and help me out.


    Contact Details
    I'm easily contacted at my email user name at hotmail. I also have AIM, MSN, Yahoo which also use the same user name, but since they're full of bot requests I generally deny everyone i don't know. I also have Skype that uses this user name, but the easiest way is through my email, just put in the subject that you're from here and hopefully i'll see it even if it gets caught by my spam filters...

    Thanks for your time and hopefully I'll hear back... I know it's a crazy weird request so no worries if you think and say so ^.^

    also sorry if dual post...system logged me out before the post went through.

  2. #2
      Hai-Etlik is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
    I understand the reluctance to enter into this type of thing, but the fact is this is a singular full project and I need full ownership of everything that has to do with this project. I have thought of other ways to make up for my short coming I've pointed out and while they aren't preferable I'd much rather go with them than give anyone the chance to screw up these particular ideas. And I simply can't pay for what i need done right now, and all I can do is give my word is that if you work with me I will not screw you and if i get money you'll get money. So please look past the money and the copyright issue and help me out.
    I don't imagine anyone would be willing to transfer copyright to you without any payment. You might, maybe be able to convince someone to do this on some other basis while retaining an option to buy the copyright outright at some later date for some fixed amount, but that's the absolute best you should expect.

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      Durakken is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik View Post
    I don't imagine anyone would be willing to transfer copyright to you without any payment. You might, maybe be able to convince someone to do this on some other basis while retaining an option to buy the copyright outright at some later date for some fixed amount, but that's the absolute best you should expect.
    I can not waver on having copyright.

    I'm willing to try to work something out, but I do not have much disposable cash so I do not imagine I would be able to pay the price of what one may be wanting...even though i don't have any sort of estimate to work from, but I can't imagine that it is cheap. I would prefer the method that is pointed out in the post which is that the cartographers and I come to an agreement on price and if there is ever any profit from the usage of the map that price will be paid from those profits before I ever see any money from them.

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      jfrazierjr is offline
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    You do realize that you and an artist "could" agree upon an exclusive license for your use of the map(s), with a set price and time period limit for agreement of purchase of the copyright? Ultimately, this arrangement can protect both sides with proper negotiating. Typically, copyright lasts for pretty much a standard lifetime or two(this varies by country of course) which is between 70ish-150ish years. License means you and the artist agree to terms of who can use the work, for how long, and in what manner. There is no reason you cannot negotiate the license with a set price to purchase the copyright at the end of the license period. This would provide you with the ability to use the art work "now" and yet still protect the artist.... if you don't pay at the end of the license period(or periods if you can negotiate multiple checkpoints), you stop using the art.
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      Durakken is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrazierjr View Post
    You do realize that you and an artist "could" agree upon an exclusive license for your use of the map(s), with a set price and time period limit for agreement of purchase of the copyright? Ultimately, this arrangement can protect both sides with proper negotiating. Typically, copyright lasts for pretty much a standard lifetime or two(this varies by country of course) which is between 70ish-150ish years. License means you and the artist agree to terms of who can use the work, for how long, and in what manner. There is no reason you cannot negotiate the license with a set price to purchase the copyright at the end of the license period. This would provide you with the ability to use the art work "now" and yet still protect the artist.... if you don't pay at the end of the license period(or periods if you can negotiate multiple checkpoints), you stop using the art.
    It doesn't really because legally the art would be using copyrighted elements of the full work and the artists would never get paid and in fact could get sued for using the piece. Also once something is on the web, especially art, it's pretty hard to get rid of, so while I couldn't use it "officially" it would always be there and would be pulled up by any followers while if it does make some money commercially there is no worries. So it doesn't protect the artist at all.

    I just am pointing out how what you are saying is flawed. I do not wish to sound all sneaky and such. I'm not one of those people that are just looking for something for free I just want all parts of this project in my hands is all.

  6. #6
    Professional Artist Facebook Connected Schwarzkreuz's Avatar
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    I dont want to stop your enthusiasm, but you are practically offering your word and the possibility of some economic success in the far future to atract artist to do what seems for like at least 1-2 Months worth of full-employment. And infinit Revisions. And no startup capital. And a lot of "if" situations. I am not shure how to see this, you have of course a lot of trust into your project but, I guess its hard to find other people putting in the same amont of Heart and energy like yourself.

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    Publisher Gamerprinter's Avatar
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    Consider that I'm both a cartographer and a publisher, I even hire artists as I need them. From a cartographer's point of view, if I am given a commission to create a map for someone's commercial project, I expect to be paid at completion of the job, not on some unforseen future time when the maps might help you provide yourself an income - that may never happen. Circumstances might occur to prevent you from publishing altogether, then what of the unpaid artists?

    Also, I've been paid as much as $400 to create one map, and even at such a large dollar amount, I still share copyright ownership with the publisher allowing me to post the map in my gallery, and here at the CG. I wouldn't give up that right for any amount of money.

    I too am a small RPG publisher, who is currently co-publishing a setting, adventures, and supplements for my Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting for PFRPG, as an imprint under Rite Publishing. Now a days, I have no out of pocket expense. Through Rite Publishing, I develop what eventually becomes a Kickstarter project - once I know the costs for cover art, interior art, writing and editing are, I create a budget of the amount of money required to fully fund the project, then I create free preview material which is then placed into Kickstarter, IndieGoGo, or an inhouse patronage system where individuals commit $25, $60, or $99 to become patrons who get rights to certain previously created products (for free) and development participation in said project.

    Like you, I am so low in budget that I've basically paid for all my cover art needs and interior art with my tax return - all of it, one year. But the artists were paid immediately upon completion of work. I would never expect an artist to not get paid for work done. And know that had I screwed over an artist in this way, they will go public with it, which would hurt your chances at acquiring future artists.

    As a small publisher, I do as much work myself as possible to keep costs down, including all my needed cartography, project development, page layout, some of the writing. I actually hire out writers that have some fan base reputation to help sell the product (Jonathan McAnulty and T. H. Gulliver). I use Rite Publishing's editors (Dave Paul). When I need art, I work with 5 different artists for specific styles that each have for varying illlustration needs. 2 are primarily cover artists, 2 are primarily interior artists, and one is my primary monster artist.

    If you want to look like a professional, then you need to be a professional and pay for your art at completion of work. No one should have to wait to whenever you might possibly earn a profit, as that may never happen. The RPG industry is generally a low profit generating industry, but that doesn't mean artists shouldn't get paid right away. Sometimes we suffer monetarily to promote the things we love.
    Last edited by Gamerprinter; 03-16-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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  8. #8
      Durakken is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwarzkreuz View Post
    I dont want to stop your enthusiasm, but you are practically offering your word and the possibility of some economic success in the far future to atract artist to do what seems for like at least 1-2 Months worth of full-employment. And infinit Revisions. And no startup capital. And a lot of "if" situations. I am not shure how to see this, you have of course a lot of trust into your project but, I guess its hard to find other people putting in the same amont of Heart and energy like yourself.
    You're right. It is my word and possibility.

    I did a quick search to check what people on this forum are saying about prices. It seems that the rates are either hourly which I think is not acceptable. I never have and I never will because as some one who knows a bit about being an artist i know that the speed changes based on a number of things per person and is in no way fair to employer, but a flat rate of between $50 and $500 was mentioned with a majority of people seemingly saying between $50 and $100 per map depending on various things.

    So...
    Size, I don't care about a "physical" copy of the maps as such what is really important as far as size is a scanner and knowing the conversion between dpis (300dpi is standard print, so you can scan in an image at higher dpi and then convert for bigger sizes), or working completely PC based.
    I don't quite know what is meant by detail. Mountains, Rivers, forests, major cities/places looking unique, smaller "towns" on the map, but not needing to look unique.
    Scale... This is a bit tricky... I'd like a map for the full world. obviously the level of detail would have to be fairly basic as the planet is the same size or nearly the same as Earth. And then i'd also like a map for the continents so the scale would change based on how big the continents are.

    Those maps would then probably be altered as would be needed for use as political maps and other such simple things, but also would need to have 4 (or more) variations with changes to city placements and such.

    Once the initial set is done though I don't see very much work to be done after that as it would be more or less just adding or removing or modifying unique places only important to keep same artist for style reasons. After that I need several city maps... it's not important that the city maps be consistent stylistically for in universe reasons so I'm not really worried about them

    At minimum that sounds like 8 maps and even at the smallest number would be $400. I don't see how I can afford that, much less, if you increase the amount per map.

  9. #9
      Durakken is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerprinter View Post
    Also, I've been paid as much as $400 to create one map, and even at such a large dollar amount, I still share copyright ownership with the publisher allowing me to post the map in my gallery, and here at the CG. I wouldn't give up that right for any amount of money.
    As put in the original post I don't have any qualms about the artist posting it in their portfolios and such. I intend to use the map both online and in print and as soon as someone does that it is pretty much pointless to put restrictions on most things like that...

    The concern I have is that I don't like dividing ownership of the full product. It's a major issue all over the place and it has caused tons of good things to be ruined or not seen.

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      Hai-Etlik is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
    As put in the original post I don't have any qualms about the artist posting it in their portfolios and such. I intend to use the map both online and in print and as soon as someone does that it is pretty much pointless to put restrictions on most things like that...

    The concern I have is that I don't like dividing ownership of the full product. It's a major issue all over the place and it has caused tons of good things to be ruined or not seen.
    Well you really aren't going to get any better than giving you an option to buying the copyright for a pre-agreed price later, and even that is going to be a hard sell and will cost more. If the project does well and you get the money, you can pay the arranged fee and the copyright is yours. If not, then it doesn't really matter that you don't hold the copyright to the map as the whole thing failed.

    I still wouldn't work under those conditions, even if I were getting a royalty until the option were exercised, but you might at least have a chance of convincing someone.

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