Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Hi, I'm new. Nice to meet ya.

  1. #1
    Guild Applicant
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2

    Post Hi, I'm new. Nice to meet ya.

    What an exciting thing to find this community! I'm not a cartographer, but just the other day I told my wife that if I couldn't be what I am for a living (I'm in the software business), I'd be either a bottom-end tennis pro (I'm not that good, but probably just a little bit over the bell curve), an itinerant musician (a little further along the bell curve), or an amateur cartographer (I could spend all day looking at maps). I love all three pursuits. I imagine they'd all pay about the same, and I'd be equally spiritually fulfilled in any of the professions.

    In any case, I'm recently thinking deeply about maps because I am working on a special project that concerns mapping; more specifically, I've decided that fractal mapping generation software sucks. Sorry to break it to any fractal terrain generation enthusiasts. But I have driven through, wandered around, and flown over (staring out the window) large portions of three continents, and fractal map generation is only believable at a very small scale.

    The problem as I see it is roughness vs. smoothness. The roughness and smoothness of natural terrains is based on more factors than any algorithms out there yet can believably approximate. Some of these factors include plate tectonics, weather patterns leading to erosion, and of course human impact which starts at least ten thousand years ago...possibly more (as an example, native americans on the eastern coast of north america were burning large tracts of forest as part of their hunting strategy long before europeans arrived).

    So I believe the best generation of fantasy maps is still the province of the artist/scientist, not the algorithm. And the only level at which fractal terrain generation is believable is the local - I have yet to see an algorithmically-generated world or continent map that stands up to scrutiny...Usually within three seconds you can say "That is computer-generated!" Of course if you want a very low level first-person view from within - let's say - a fjord, you can probably tweak your generator to give you one...but it won't include the cobblestone beaches, or the strand-line of dried tree trunks washed up after the earthquake-generated tsunami years ago...

    I'm also interested in the human side of it: mapping of hamlets, towns, cities, city-states, nations. And again there's a level of believability in the visual depiction of these polities that can't be achieved without the consideration of multiple factors: how and why would people have settled there in that way....how did that settlement develop into that thriving metropolis, and why? Was there a natural deep-water port? Was there a natural barrier against invasion? A large amount of natural resources? Answering these questions makes for a more believable map than just painting a large settlement onto a piece of coastline.

    A good cartographer is an intuitive geologist, natural scientist, ecologist, anthropologist. I have a hunch that most of you are most of that. I look forward to sharing maps, giving and receiving feedback, and learning from you!

  2. #2
      Noon is offline
    Guild Journeyer Noon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    France
    Posts
    116

    Post

    Hello from France and welcome among us.
    Your interests are so varied, very interesting.
    I'm in a hurry (not sure of the expression ) to see your maps.
    Noon
    ***************

    My website : http://www.lechemindenoon.com
    A project of role play (with my maps): www.rhim.fr

  3. #3
      Ascension is offline
    Community Leader Ascension's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    St. Charles, MO
    Posts
    8,216

    Post

    Welcome aboard.
    If the radiance of a thousand suns was to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...I am become Death, the Shatterer of worlds.
    -J. Robert Oppenheimer (father of the atom bomb) alluding to The Bhagavad Gita (Chapter 11, Verse 32)


    My Maps ~ My Brushes ~ My Tutorials ~ My Challenge Maps

  4. #4
      ravells is offline
    Community Leader Gracious Donor ravells's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    10,902

    Default

    Great to have you here. Waldronate, who is a member and regular here is the author of 'Fractal Terrains' and 'Wilbur', both fractal mapping software. It sounds like your interests reflect those of many of us here, so I'm sure you'll fit right in.

    Welcome!

  5. #5
    Community Leader Facebook Connected Steel General's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ft. Wayne, IN
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    Welcome Aboard!
    My Finished Maps | My Challenge Maps | Ghoraja Juun, my largely stagnated campaign setting.

    Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.



  6. #6
      Redrobes is offline
    Software Dev/Rep Redrobes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    England
    Posts
    4,798
    Blog Entries
    4

    Post

    Yes a number of us make terrain apps. From your statement I should add that these terrains are not merely random. The initial generation might be but then more algorithms are applied to generate more and more things. Your right in that the real world is so infinitely complex that its impossible to generate them in a computer however I also believe that they are also too complex to be artistically drawn too and that a computer can do a better job of getting closer than a person can - certainly in a given small amount of time anyways.

    So we apply algorithms to approximate climate so that mountains are colder and then apply more to simulate frost erosion and also the movement of rock down sides of hills. We do water and glacial erosion too which makes U shaped valleys and rivers cut into them at the bottom. We model vegetation based on climate and a few other factors and try to model the overall look of the terrain and then after all of that we texture them. Usually thats done procedurally so that beaches can have pebbles. My GTS has some parameters about high tide which causes the sea to smooth out those areas and the texturer then shades different types of sand and beach flotsam.

    Of the image below not a single factor of it was hand made. The terrain, the flow, veg and texturing is all computer generated and not at all directed manually. It could keep making these endlessly. Your right tho its still not enough to make it look real. It still looks computer generated.

  7. #7
      NeonKnight is offline
    Community Leader NeonKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada, EH!
    Posts
    5,025

    Default

    Welcome to the Guild!
    Daniel the Neon Knight: Campaign Cartographer User

    Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice!

    Any questions on CC3? Post them with CC3 in the Subject Line!
    MY 'FAMOUS' CC3 MAPS: Thunderspire; Pyramid of Shadows; King of the Trollhaunt Warrens; Demon Queen's Enclave

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •