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Thread: CC2Pro Local Map - Longsaddle

  1. #11
      ravells is offline
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    Here are my suggestions (for what they are worth!).

    - Rather than using a standard fill for the grasslands, make two or three 'grass symbols' and then copy, move and paste them by hand. It's not a large map so it won't take long and it will mean you will get rid of the 'repeating fill effect'.

    - Try to make the overall shapes of the fields more interesting, they look a bit 'blobby'.

    - Get rid of the fill you are using for the fields.

    - are you using CC2's default colour pallete? One of the problems is that CC2 has a very limited colour pallete (i think 256 colours) so to make the maps really shine a muted colour pallete might be an option worth considering (unless you really want to go for that cartoony CC2 look, which has become a cliche).

    I haven't used CC2 for awhile, but I'd like to see what I could do with this map to better explain what I'm trying very badly to say, so if you want to post up the CC2 file as a .zip, I can have a go if you like?

    CC2 is deceptive in that it promises so much, but it has a lot of limitations by the standards of what is available today. The best maps I have seen with CC2 (and they are stunning and still hold up well) usually have a very simple colour pallete (mabye 4 to 6 colours tops - many are black, white and grey), and the colours are very carefully chosen to be harmonious. They also have a very strong style - virtually all of them use few or none of the standard CC symbols.

    Cheers

    Ravs

  2. #12
      El Hakim is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravells View Post
    Here are my suggestions (for what they are worth!).

    - Rather than using a standard fill for the grasslands, make two or three 'grass symbols' and then copy, move and paste them by hand. It's not a large map so it won't take long and it will mean you will get rid of the 'repeating fill effect'.
    Okay. I tried that and it helps.

    - Try to make the overall shapes of the fields more interesting, they look a bit 'blobby'.
    Can you be more specific?

    What I'm trying to achieve is something organic. Meaning, it needs to look like it could be the end result of several generations of agricultural expansion. It can't be too regular or too random, but in the end it needs to be esthetically pleasing for the sake of the map. The principles I came up with were: 1) roughly parallel the roads and the river; 2) make the outside borders roughly straight; 3) but not too straight.

    - Get rid of the fill you are using for the fields.
    And don't use a fill? What would I use instead?

    - are you using CC2's default colour pallete?
    Yes, is there a way to expand it?

    I haven't used CC2 for awhile, but I'd like to see what I could do with this map to better explain what I'm trying very badly to say, so if you want to post up the CC2 file as a .zip, I can have a go if you like?
    I'm afraid that would be too much help, so that whatever I ended up with wouldn't feel like mine anymore. I would have to ignore what you did and go with something completely different, or end up feeling like I had just copied you. I appreciate the offer though.

    They also have a very strong style - virtually all of them use few or none of the standard CC symbols.
    Yeah, the symbols leave some to be desired.


    Thanks for the advice!!
    El Hakim, the Wandering Dwarf

    "El Hakim--the Learned One--the other slaves called him, because at night, when they were allowed to rest for a few hours upon the rowers' benches and lie looking up at the skies, he would sometimes talk of the fabulous lands that lay to the east." --Frank Slaughter, The Mapmaker


  3. #13
      ravells is offline
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    You're welcome!

    Fields: The problem, IMO with the style of field fill that you are currently using is that the perspective of the lines doesn't match that of the houses, so they look 'off' and the repeat makes them look too regular. What I would suggest is that like with the grass you draw your own fields and don't worry about the brown background. When you draw your fields make sure the lines are parallel with the house lines (see first image). You may want to make the fields a little bigger in the foreground than in the background (if you want to add a little perspective) - second image. That should give you the ability to make them organic and keep them regular.

    AFAIK, you're stuck with 256 colours with CC2, but you can change the pallete to a custom one, - I would go for less saturated colours (or alternatively, draw everything with saturated colours and then use GIMP to desaturate the final result).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CC2Pro Local Map - Longsaddle-cc-alt.jpg  

  4. #14
      Korash is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Hakim View Post
    Heh. I was thinking they needed more logic. For example, I'm thinking the area around Longsaddle might be too wide. A peasant who lived in Longsaddle would waste half his morning getting to the far edge of the fields. I think I need to cut a notch into it from the east so that it's stretched along the roads, but not too deep.

    Can you give an example of what you mean?
    I think that my main point for my suggestion is similar to what ravells said about the grass icon/fill. The fields look just TOO ordered. Most farmers live by their farms if no on them, and as the generations go by the original farm gets parceled off to the next generation. Every few generations or so would find it hard to get to the fields in time to do enough work and move a bit further down the road and set up another farm. This give a bit more randomness to the fields and more often than not a more patchwork appearance than what the fill gives you.

    Now, I know diddly about CC2 (last time I played (briefly) with CC was when is WAS CC(no number)) so I would suggest a similar approach to the grass one as mentioned by ravells. Just give the field icons differing sizes and some rotations.

  5. #15
      El Hakim is offline
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    I'll try these suggestions and see how they work. Thanks again for the advice!
    El Hakim, the Wandering Dwarf

    "El Hakim--the Learned One--the other slaves called him, because at night, when they were allowed to rest for a few hours upon the rowers' benches and lie looking up at the skies, he would sometimes talk of the fabulous lands that lay to the east." --Frank Slaughter, The Mapmaker


  6. #16
      El Hakim is offline
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    Latest attempt incorporating Ravell's suggestions.



    Made my own grass and farm symbols. Tried to put the farm symbol into perspective with the structures, and shrank both as they went towards the top of the map to add a little bit of depth.
    El Hakim, the Wandering Dwarf

    "El Hakim--the Learned One--the other slaves called him, because at night, when they were allowed to rest for a few hours upon the rowers' benches and lie looking up at the skies, he would sometimes talk of the fabulous lands that lay to the east." --Frank Slaughter, The Mapmaker


  7. #17
    Guild Master Gracious Donor Midgardsormr's Avatar
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    It's looking much, much better. Good changes!
    Bryan Ray, visual effects artist
    http://www.bryanray.name

  8. #18
      Gandwarf is offline
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    Agreed, this version of the map is an improvement (again!).

    I am wondering how some different colored fields (in a patchwork, like in my recent cities) would look. Gotta try that sometime when I create a regional map.
    Check out my City Designer 3 tutorials. See my fantasy (city) maps in this thread.

    Gandwarf has fallen into shadow...

  9. #19
    Community Leader Facebook Connected Steel General's Avatar
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    I agree with Midgard & Gandwarf, each successive map has looked better and better.
    My Finished Maps | My Challenge Maps | Ghoraja Juun, my largely stagnated campaign setting.

    Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.



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    That's why we are the Brotherhood...we help our own to get better. Sort of like the Thieves Guild; my compass has poison tips and my ruler hides a stiletto Only been here a few days he's learning, the Map is strong with him, he will go far.
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