A question on structure size

[lapada]

have you ever been to St.Peters cathedral? I went in side and could not think of how its still standing -- with some clever building anything is possible i guess XD

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/secret...VatInt5KLg.jpg
Photo's dont really do it justice but I could see those crazy castles standing ( or just go ahead an say Magic holds them up)

[Gidde]

That last one may indeed be technically impossible, but it's my favorite of all of them. I'd give it the magic excuse and keep it anyway just for sheer cool factor.

[Ascension]

Remember this: until the Eiffel Tower came along, the pyramids were the tallest man-made things on earth. So I say it depends on the tech level of your world. If you're using true medieval technology then you need buttresses on the outside and vaulted ceilings with columns on the inside for anything over 50 feet, or so, or else the curtain walls fall over and the roof collapses. On the other hand, the temple of Solomon is purported to have foundation stones larger and heavier than the pyramid stones (but I don't know how tall it was supposed to have been). But since no one can really prove that it becomes a matter of faith and if you choose to believe then I'd say anything is possible with large enough and strong enough material at the base. If they can build Machu Pichu then I say that last one is feasible as well, though the stone formation looks totally implausible it could have been "shaved"...kinda stupid to do that but it looks cool and history is full of egomaniacs who want cool-looking stuff and don't know jack about engineering. The Romans had that volcanic ash concrete, which is stronger than normal concrete and actually hardens under water, so substitute magic for volcanic ash or have titanium quartz in your granite and truly anything is possible. I like the 3rd and 4th as the most plausible here because they're all built on a hill so you can tunnel into the hill and have all sorts of extra room (just don't collapse the hill on yourself). My personal faves are the throne rooms in God of War.

[tilt]

all great looking buildings, and in my world I don't care about arcitectonical possible but about cool ... the rest is magic

and concerning - WHY one would build those huge buildling and what the space is used for - don't underestimate the intimidation factor of those impressive buildings - showing off your nations power

[LonewandererD]

Wow, i didn't expect so many responses so quickly 0.0 . Thanks for all the input, i now have a better idea of how my structure is going to be limited physically.

-D-

[Meridius]

Ascension, I never got why the pyramids always get that title. Some church-towers in Europe are taller than the pyramids. And at least eight of those pre-date the Eiffel tower. HOWEVER, many of those collapsed due to catastrophes, like storms or lightning-strikes, and are either lower nowadays, or no longer exist. The pyramids are solid structures however, they do not have much internal usable volume. Most of it is structural. Building very tall free-standing structures in the middle ages certainly was possible. That makes the pyramids VERY durable. However, for free-standing structures, many churches and cathedrals are also quite impressive. Many churches also reach ages up to 900 years by now. Which is quite durable in my humble opinion.

The addition of magic or semi-magic would in fact make it quite possible to build buildings which are much bigger than that. You may want to read up a bit on arches and vaults and so forth, it really helps understand how to make a building look believable.

On the topic's pictures:
1: Looks very well possible with the addition of a little magic, however I find the walls a bit too tall to be one surface, unless it gradually decreases in width along it's height.
2: Looks like it would collapse, especially those super-tall free standing towers. The big statue seems quite unwise... those wings must catch a lot of wind... Certainly an impressive drawing, but it doesn't really work for me.
3: Not much detail. Seems like it has a bit too many single elements comprising it's height. Also, the shape of the tall structure looks like it doesn't belong in that city.
4: The gate is a bit overdone, but otherwise this looks quite believable. I would avoid square shapes (windows) as much as possible though.
5: The gods of that world must have been drunk when they created that mountain.

Note, most of these buildings probably would collapse in reality, but in fantasy, we only have to have it LOOK like it wouldn't collapse.

[Zevious Zoquis]

I wouldn't want to be the guy that had to climb the stairs to the top of those needles in number 2...

[danjr]

A couple of other factors to consider about structure.

At ten stories buidlings have the same frequency as earthquakes. So they are the first structures to topple. Unless they have anti vibration dampening.

Another factor with tall structures is wind load. The more surface area and the higher it is really affects if it is able to withstand those forces. A tall skinny structure doesn't have the internal structure to withstand it. Tapered structures are more readily able to deflect the wind load. Wider towers have more sidestructure to absorb the wind load.

[LonewandererD]

Okay, thanks for all the input and since this thread is still sort of recent I hope you don't mind me running ideas past you. All of these ideas relate to the architecture of the Dal and mostly relating to the Great Palace of the Dal'Jha'N. As this is a cartography site I will understand if this thread gets closed down, it’s just that I’ve found this site to be a valuable trove of knowledge.

Okay, the ideas. The Great Palace is a work of art in itself, it has never been destroyed since it was first erected almost 1200 years before the current date and has constantly been improved upon and has always served as the Dal central seat of government and culture and home of the Dal’Jha’N (Dal equivalent of royalty). Some ideas I won’t to try and logically (i.e. with minimal magickal contribution) include in the design of the palace are grand structure sizes, refrigeration and food storage, non-combustible internal heating, spectacular gardens and some form of plumbing. I’m still studying structure sizes, thanks for all the info, gardens I can do because I know that it is possible with good soil and sufficient irrigation and I’m basing the technology of ancient refrigeration on info I have found on Persian Yahk-Chals.

Here’s my idea for internal heating, it’s based somewhat on Korean onsons and Roman hypocausts (check spelling) so I know it’s possible my question is would it be possible on the scale I’m thinking. The Palace is actually built on the remains of two extinct volcanos (one rose up inside the remains of the other), certain areas of the still fissured rocks and caverns are quite hot so the Dal thought of diverting water into these hot spots to create steam, some areas already converted underground streams into steam, the Dal just upped the scale. The steam and hot air is diverted into shafts and hollows that are built into the walls of the palace. The hollows heat up and the heat is transferred into the room keeping the palace warm all year round. Flaps and slides in key shafts and junctions allow the hot air and steam to be diverted to certain parts of the palace. In the warmer seasons all of the shafts are blocked off and an entirely separate shaft system is opened up to divert the steam and hot air away from the palace and out through vents in a nearby hill, most of the water channels leading into the hotspots are also sealed. Would such a system theoretically work, or do you need more info? If you need a base idea of how big the palace is it has a footprint the size of the Forbidden City and its highest point is at least eleven stories, research into Chinese architecture (specifically pagodas) have confirmed that the size/height can get bigger than this.

My other ideas are based somewhat on this system so I need to know your thoughts on this before proceeding.

-D-

[danjr]

The heating with steam would be pretty difficult.

#1 Some volcanic steam is poisonous, but that is a minor issue.

#2 Condensation. The heated steam will start to condense as it transfers all the heat to where it is needed. So the system would have to be designed to allow the water to run-off somewhere.

#3 Airflow. The whole system has to be able to breathe. I.E. needs to have constant flow. The shafts have to be voluminous at the start and slowly reduce as they branch off. Also they have to exhaust. If the mass of air cannot exit, there will be no air movement. The "chimneys" have to be able to allow lots of exiting air to keep air flow at a good speed.


#4 You can also have some areas of the palace use heat transference where the steam can heat the stone and the stone radiates the heat outwards. This is especially effective in large areas.


Hope these give you some more ideas on what is feasible.