Eyria Map (n00b requesting tips)

[Filipe Passos-Coelho]

[Original Message from 23-Mar-2018]
Hello,

I have recently got into map making (as you will be able to tell in a couple of lines), and wanted to ask some generic feedback.
During a slepless night, I installed GIMP 2.0 and gave it a go at designing Eyria's map.
After a couple of hours, this was what I got.

Haven't changed it since, besides adding some town and region names

2 days ago, a friend of mine introduced me to Inkarnate beta, so i decided to fiddle with it.
This is version 1.2, just adding some minor details, after maybe 5 to 10min.


My request for feedback is more related to the world itself then the skills.
Skills I will need to get by practicing, but what is your overall take on the map?
Does it strike as something original? Realistic? Convoluted?
Does it have too much? Too little? What would you add?

Any feedback is helpful!

Thank you,
Filipe

www.talesofeyria.wordpress.com
https://www.facebook.com/TalesOfEyria/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Update from 27-Marc-2018]
I cannot thank you enough for all the feedback given so far, it has been truly amazing. just wanted to share some more thoughts to help steer the conversation and thread.
- below is a map with the biomes' updates I did, to have a better idea of what things ought to look like from a climate perspective.


- the map below shows some plate tectonic information. This will mainly be relevant for Volcanic activities.


I want this map to be realistic, but not SUPER realistic (both in style and scientific accuracy). I want to avoid as much as possible geography 101 mistakes, and if with your help, I can even go the extra mile to have a more scientifically sound map, thumbs up. However, if in order for the map to get hyper realistic, it gets in the way of the story, I would settle for a less realistic map. That's my line in the sand. I was speaking to a friend yesterday and I realized it's been more than 15 years since I started working on Eyria. Most of that time has been scrapping ideas for that base story, and now I think I have something worth writing about because I think it is interesting enough for someone to give me their time and read it.
The base story is complete, not written, but layed out. That means the next step is the map making, as that will influence the culture, the people, the food, the fauna and flora, the distance it takes the heroes to walk, seasons.... The map will be of huge importance to define where the heroes are and what they will encounter from a climate perspective. Thing of it as a map for RPG D&D for that matter. As so, I am flexible with it, and don't have any qualm in the sketches I did not being the final product. Some ideas I have been advised and would agree with for "twisting" the map are:

- Elongating the map to make it more vertical, so it doesn't feel cramped, and the temperature and biome variation can flow more naturally. Please check MistyBeee's sketch for assistance (kuddos to Misty for it):

A means arctic, B means Taiga/Boreal, C means Cold-temperate (conifers + marshy steppes) forest.
D1 means more humid and warm Deciduous forest types, D2 means more dry and warm Mediterranean biome.
E means Warm temperature (jungle + desert).
Thinking of proportions, elongating would fix the cramped feel, would help the biomes transition, would also reduce the % of desert in the image, and have more "middle ground" land, which is more naturally occurring.

- The map is not complete and does NOT intend to be realistic depiction of the whole planet where we can find Eyria. Think of it as a Middle Earth, there is more to it than what we see on that map. The gaps and some limitations are purposefully there, because they represent the ignorance, as well as the willingness to stay ignorant, of Eyrian people. People have seen more things upper the North after traversing the mountains, but those are obviously lunatics or liars. There are more islands to the West, that's where the slave traders poach the Razlan (hybrid feline/human folk) and Vallon (hybrid bull/something else/human folk) for the gladiatorial arenas, yet because they are slave traders and pirates, and gladiatorial logistics is a tad unethical and a drag, people dont really ask or care. The Valara "Island" is probably a huge continent, maybe as big as any other we see in Eyria, but it wasn't explored, and people fear the Morgrance that live there and avoid those cursed waters. The south desert has end, because people buy in Peba (Dunakor's capital, South continent) alien-made artifacts that look good but cant make them work (most of them are broken anyway) because they were sold in the fabled bazaar city of Menzomenzaran. People in Eyria just choose to see Eyria as the only thing in the world. It is due to lower literacy, lower travelling abroad (no Ryanair), too much going on trying to make ends means to ponder about it, prejudice coming from very twisted word-of-mouth tales that generally are not even about the original topic after having been relayed 5 times... This obvious makes designing a map a bit easier, because we can have more liberties, but it is also a key story development tool, as our characters will unveil more of Eyria than anyone knew. As the mentor says to the lead "Your eyes are yet to open to what surrounds you. How could you possibly fathom to comprehend the entirety of the Verses?"

- As said, some things are very non-negotiable for me. Skadi, the steppes-marshy land we have been discussing is one of them. I need that to be a region to be not inviting at all to those but the natives. The native Vorfon used to rule half of the narkarn (north) and tremanath (south), and now they are constantly under either tremanath rule, or narkarian attack when they are free. They borders also fluctuate immensely, depending on the season, which makes their power and how long they remain independent, vary a lot. This map needs to have this too-muddy-for men to walk comfortably, but not getting in the way of the steeds of the natives (because their power comes from using the steeds, as nomads and archers).

- another non negotiable is having two deserts, one sand and one rock. Sand will be more predominant. Each desert represent a God for the Maedwen, the original natives of Dunakor, who were pushed into the desert by the Kaichin (tremanathi word)/Dokukrian (Usurpers in Maedwen tongue)/now self-called Dunakorians. The Sandy desert goddess is the most powerful being in the Maedwen pantheon (hence why father rocky desert has a smaller known turf). Women are generally more revered then men in Maedwen society.

- an alteration i would like to have, and that's why I invested a bit of time in tectonics, is the inner sea between Hrulgatharn (West) and Slygon (Centre). this is in its majority a more wild sea, harder to navigate through, lots of small islands and hidden shallows from the divergent fracture that sailing complicated. This has kept Hrulgatharn quite free of foreign intervention for a long while, has made them only really do coastal sailing for fishing and regional trade, and be overall less technologically developed. Also, this has an impact on the bay of Fjord, as the more turbulent nature of the sea made the people living there more believers of their patron Sea God Yaroslav Yorek. Nyl Wo area is a niche per say, as they have also loads of redhead people.

- Indyvar, the South jungle wetlands region of tremanath, is also a non negotiable. This region needs to be quite damp, humid, wet, filled with rivers, marshes, bogs, swamps, ponds, some stagnant water. Main reason is the religion that flourished there: they are more geared towards charity and less towards inner meditation (like most of tremanath are). This makes them some times prone to rebellion because its hard to get food, and since there is some prejudice towards them, they get the shortest end of the stick. It is also a key story development. Imagine you, as mighty well fed hero, has to go kill a bunch of starving (I am taking proper dying from hunger) rebels... how much of a psychological impact would that have.

Other details: you can't see the equator on this map, it is further South. I would say this area of the map is the equivalent of the stretch from the Sahara to Finland/Russia (if not in Km/mi, in style and geo-climatic dispersion), so between the Arctic circle and the Tropic of Cancer (or a bit closer to the Equator). The North pole is further north as well. Compared to Earth, the Equator in Eyria's world is considerably hotter and the North pole is considerably colder.

So my renewed request here is: tear this map apart. Say what you dont like, what doesnt make sense, what you find funny or not believable. Let's discuss that so we can come up with solutions to make it work. While this is a fantasy map and I will give the story prime importance, if the map is as realistic as it can get, it won't hurt at all.
Cheers,
Filipe

[Azélor]

My main concern is that supposed to be the complete world or just one part of it? I guess not and I also assume than the north pole is not represented on the map either. A lot of people get their poles wrong.

[Filipe Passos-Coelho]

My main concern is that supposed to be the complete world or just one part of it? I guess not and I also assume than the north pole is not represented on the map either. A lot of people get their poles wrong.

Hi Azelor!
Without trying to spoil, no, it's not the complete World. There is more in every direction.

To the North there are some massive mountains, called the Blizzard Peaks, where traversing is difficult. The only way through would be through secret underground caves. No Narkarian is know to have come back from the Far North. And in true Narkarian fashion, if no Narkarian can get through, no one can, because the Gods do not will it. There's also the idea that Father Baldan and his wives Zayna and Jannah live there and argue all the time, so they keep their distance.

To the West is the so-called Never-ending Sea. There is a little archipelago where some sentient demi-humans live, but it is believe that, after that, nothing else but water. The Hrulgatharians have little interest in seafaring, as they devote their energies to worshiping their gods. The sailors from Nandagar (western coast of Dunakor) are known to be crazy enough to venture into the endless blue, but their reputation of untrustworthy sea-dogs doesn't grant them any credit or credibility.

More or less the same to the East: the Mirror Ocean (because it mirrors the sky) is also considered endless and devoid of life. The island of Valara, of which you only see a tiny tip on the Southeast corner, is of unknown size. It hasn't been explored as the original settlers, the Kaichin (who would later named the Dokukria in Maedwen tongue, and adopt the name of Dunakorians after the Great Exodus war) never ventured too inland. It seems everything in it is hostile to all foreigners but their local masters the Morgrance. One thing is certain: the Morgrance didn't come from anywhere in Eyria...

The South ends with the two deserts, the Sea of Sand and the Rocky Ocean, two dry regions where little to no life exists. There are rumors of buzzing cities and towns, like the fabled hub of Menzomenzaran, but most believe it to be a fable from Old Maedwen. The wandering tribes of the Maedwen roam the region, but they are elusive and kept to themselves, and would not share what is beyond the deserts.

As for the poles: Definitely the map is not geographically centered. Yes, Narkarn is to the North and Dunakor to the South, but to truly be aligned with the meridian, the map should be rotate a couple of degrees clockwise. the parallel "parallel" to the would-be equator would pass through Southern Hrulgatharn, Northern Dunakor and Southern Tremanath, where you can find the tropical rain-forests.

Hope this clarifies

[Gaheris]

I would question the mountain chains going across the isthmuses of the central and western peninsulas. I guess that they're there to function as boundaries, but do you have any other reason for them being oriented like that? If not perhaps you might adjust them a bit so they're not stopping suddenly at the coast.

Otherwise, the circular layout makes me think of a gigantic caldera; is this intentional?

[Filipe Passos-Coelho]

I would question the mountain chains going across the isthmuses of the central and western peninsulas. I guess that they're there to function as boundaries, but do you have any other reason for them being oriented like that? If not perhaps you might adjust them a bit so they're not stopping suddenly at the coast.

Otherwise, the circular layout makes me think of a gigantic caldera; is this intentional?

Hi Gaheris, thank you for your feedback.
I guess we can consider that a tectonic boarder between the central and western peninsulas. They would have maritime "mountains" along that line, which goes along with that sea near the Bay of Fjords being quite story and treacherous. No, it isn't intentional, and I see your point. I haven't thought this through enough, it seems palely clear now...

[Gaheris]

Please don't think that the caldera thing was a criticism, I just wondered whether it was coincidental or there was a reason for the shape. Sorry if I've triggered "once you see it, you can't unsee it"

[Filipe Passos-Coelho]

Please don't think that the caldera thing was a criticism, I just wondered whether it was coincidental or there was a reason for the shape. Sorry if I've triggered "once you see it, you can't unsee it"

it was criticism, but constructive one which is exactly what I asked for, thank you! no harm done, quite the opposite.
I had planned to have an inner sea, a bit like the Mediterranean. As my sense of aesthetics is poor, the draft and concept are not really stellar.
Hahaha probably best to trigger it now when it can be changed than too much down the line.

here are a couple more ideas I have failed miserably at doing


this map highlights the different biomes in the region. unfortunately i didnt have many couples, so dont associate yellow with savanna and pink with tundra, because they are a big mixed up. someone commented that, for a map that is going to be Earth-like (think that the longer axis of the 4 external continents could be around Russia's span), the original map was poor and the climate variations were unrealistic and sudden as hell.


I heard somebody (I am great with names, as you can tell) mentioning volcanic and plate tectonics, and I though that would be a great idea to explore. the different plate interactions provide sources to volcanic activities, island formation, subduction, earthquakes, geysers, and all those things that happen in the real world and, odds were, weren't going to happen in mine without being completely random.


this one only highlights the "equator" and the "arctic" parallels (not to be seen as the true arctic and equator tho). This is more to show where the temperature is hotter and where it would be colder.

please tear these ones apart, so I can keep on improving the concept!

EDIT: yes, my printer/scanner sucks. yes, i am this bad at drawing. yes, my handwriting goes from being-able-to-read to full-blown ECG machine.

[Azélor]

Looking at your biome map, I have no idea where the equator would be located. Is it supposed to be the red line?

[Filipe Passos-Coelho]

Looking at your biome map, I have no idea where the equator would be located. Is it supposed to be the red line?

hm, not exactly, no. That line does indicate the warmest part on this map:
- the top yellow part is very cold. it does help that you have quite tall mountains, so you will have Alpine arctic there (himalayas style).
- between yellow line and red is temperate, with precipitation being a bigger factor in the type of climate and fauna/flora (followed by height or nonexistence of Mountain ranges). Flatter areas have more deciduous and grass-style biomes, and comfortably warmer weather (more Mediterranean countries). Higher regions, or close to mountains will be more coniferous and boreal in nature (Germany, Poland, North USA/South Canada). The Mountains also help to keep a more humid (aka UK/Scotland constantly wet feel) environment.
- Below red is proper oven temperature. The more inland, the worse, because of lack of surface water and the continental climate effect (Gobi desert, Arabic desert). When closer to the ocean, there's much more rain, due to evaporation (countries in the gulf of Guinea). In some areas, like the big jungle West near Manthos agaria, the mountains help keep that region quite drenched (think Central American forests of Guatemala, San Salvador, Colombia); the big jungle East (called wetlands) is filled with rivers, bogs, swamps and wetlands, which makes guarantees you always have your feet and your head wet (think Amazon, Indonesia). Plants tend to be more Mangrove like, with several vines and parasitic ones lashed on them.

Keep in mind there's plenty more if we go North, South, West and East. in a way, Eyria is like a Middle Earth, but the locals have no clue or interest to find out if there is more beyond these (perceived) boundaries. it's like during the Middle Ages: before the Portuguese, Spanish and Dutch started sailing off from Europe, most people though the world was on a plate surrounded by water. Eyrians in their vast majority think the world is flat, and that they are basically floating on a fast sea, somehow "nailed" in place.

Does that make sense or help?

EDIT: I absolutely L-O-V-E your questions, they make me think, do reality checks, and that's great. It forces me to reevaluate things and make it more bulletproof, so thank you for them.

[Azélor]

it does help that you have quite tall mountains

not necessarily because temperature inversion tends to play a big role especially in polar latitudes : http://slideplayer.com/slide/5233026/
For example, the mountains of Eastern Siberia are warmer than the plain below them.

I asked where the equator was because on Earth, temperatures are largely dependent on the latitude and the angle of the Sun. So if the red line is the hottest, it is likely the equator unless your planet has different characteristics. And generally, desert are rare around the equator, except in Eastern Africa. It has something to do with the direction of the winds that tend to hug the coast instead of going inland.

If I follow the yellow line, Glacier pound should be warmer and Skadi colder. Skadi needs to be colder also because it sits at the eastern edge of the continent and the dominant winds comes from the arctic region in the west. (most of the time)
Steppes are unlikely at this latitude. It is cold, so in order to have enough evaporation, it need to be really dry. Apparently, some areas in Northern Alaska are dry enough to be considered steppes but not all maps agree with this.
Glacier pound world be like Norway or even warmer depending if the yellow line is roughly the equivalent of the arctic circle.

most people though the world was on a plate surrounded by water

yes but most people were also illiterate and never travelled more than a few miles away from home.