Labeling in Illustrator

[Llannagh]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if it'S best to do the labeling of my map in Adobe Illustrator, since I think it would be better suited for this than Photoshop. The problem is, though, when I open the map in Illustrator (from a jpeg) it's way bigger than the "canvas". Am I being stupid? Or would it be better to do it in PS anyway?

Thanks, Llannagh

[xpian]

Since Illustrator is an object-based graphics application (whereas Photoshop is mostly pixel-based raster graphics app), the JPEG can be represented *at any size* without changing the underlying graphic. That is to say, you can scale the JPEG down to fit whatever canvas size you have in Illustrator, or scale the canvas and vector elements up to meet whatever size the JPEG happens to be. When Illustrator brings your JPEG image into itself, it's just doing a quick calculation based upon the specified canvas attributes and the JPEG's resolution. If you change the canvas specs and then bring the JPEG in again, it should appear to be a different size. If you scale the JPEG up or down in Illustrator, you're not losing any resolution--the underlying source graphic is still the same as it was before. After you've put all of your vector text on top of the JPEG, you then need to pay attention to your output resolution. If you're printing, you're constrained by the printer's resolution. If you're exporting to a new raster format (like a new JPEG that now includes all of the text you've added), then you'll need to specify the output resolution carefully, because there will likely be some interpolation. I recommend using the very powerful SAVE FOR WEB dialog box when doing this, as it lets you preview what your output will look like before you save it. (ALWAYS use Save For Web, in Illustrator or in Photoshop, when you're saving the file as a GIF, a JPEG, or a PNG. Always.)

[Llannagh]

Ah. Thanks. For some reason resizing the jpeg eluded me completely. So I guess Illustrator would also be the one to go for for borders/frames, because, vector? Well, whole other program to learn for me now.

Thank you for the detailed answer!

[xpian]

Happy to help! Illustrator can certainly be a great app to do a map in. It's a very deep application, with tons of functionality. I use it mostly for graphic design, but I've done a few maps entirely within Illustrator. It's certainly possible.

For instance, this map was entirely produced in Illustrator, without using any 3D features, or rendering, or Photoshop:

[snodsy]

I find Illustator much easier for labels and sometimes the borders items. As xpain as stated, you can do maps completely in either program. I just hate Photoshop making every label a layer, I'm constantly search for the appropriate layer - 20 names, 20 layers, of course you can alway merge, but then you lose the ability to edit.

[xpian]

@snodsy - I use a couple of techniques for that "lost text label layer" problem. First, I organize with layer folders, keeping all text labels of a certain type in individual folders (or at least keeping them all in one big folder). This also allows me to assign layer FX to the whole lot at once. Second, I use Character Styles and create a style for each point size and font. Like, I'll have a "small mountains" style, a "big city" style, and a "small castle" style. Third, and most important, I check the box on the Move tool ( "V" hotkey ) so that whatever I click on, that layer gets selected. From that point on, I never have to search in the layer palette for a specific text label layer...I just switch to the Move tool and click upon the text I want to effect. Occasionally, some very large text label gets in the way and prevents you from clicking on the little text label behind it. In that case, you can just Lock the big text label, or lock the entire layer folder with the big text labels. Then you won't have them interfering with your clicking.

[snodsy]

@snodsy - I use a couple of techniques for that "lost text label layer" problem. First, I organize with layer folders, keeping all text labels of a certain type in individual folders (or at least keeping them all in one big folder). This also allows me to assign layer FX to the whole lot at once. Second, I use Character Styles and create a style for each point size and font. Like, I'll have a "small mountains" style, a "big city" style, and a "small castle" style. Third, and most important, I check the box on the Move tool ( "V" hotkey ) so that whatever I click on, that layer gets selected. From that point on, I never have to search in the layer palette for a specific text label layer...I just switch to the Move tool and click upon the text I want to effect. Occasionally, some very large text label gets in the way and prevents you from clicking on the little text label behind it. In that case, you can just Lock the big text label, or lock the entire layer folder with the big text labels. Then you won't have them interfering with your clicking.

Thanks xpain, that helps alot. I do use layers and sublayers alot, and I've used Character Styles in INDESIGN and Illustrator, but never thought about it in Photoshop. But I didn't know about the hotkey - thanks man, that will surely help. Are you a practicing graphic designer? I do a lot of wayfinding and exhibit design. Sorry Llannagh for taking over your thread. but hope this actually helps you too.

[xpian]

@snodsy - Yeah, I've been doing graphic design for more than 20 years. I worked at Kinko's for a long time, making resumes, flyers, posters, business cards, etc. on the computer and often then printing, cutting, and mounting them for the customer. I had to deal with tons of incoming files, helping customers tweak them to print correctly. I did a lot of tutoring of customers, teaching them how to use certain features of (mostly) the Adobe applications. For years, I worked in Photoshop several hours a day, every day, making photo manipulations, color corrections, compositions, etc. I've done freelance work since leaving Kinko's about ten years ago.

Recommendations: (not that YOU need them, necessarily, but for the benefit of everyone reading the thread)
• Best Book to learn Photoshop: "Photoshop 5: In Depth" from Coriolis Press (probably impossible to find, and quite old at this point, but virtually all of PS core functionality is unchanged since the early 1990s).
• Best Books to learn Graphic Design: anything by Robin Williams...books like "The Non-Designer's Design Book" and anything else she's ever written. http://www.amazon.com/Non-Designers-...2107168&sr=1-5

[Midgardsormr]

I think you've got some good workflow suggestions here, but I thought I'd pop in and caution against using Jpeg as an intermediate format. Jpeg is a lossy compression format that degrades the quality of your image every time you re-save. I recommend PNG instead. It won't compress as far as a jpeg, particularly if the map is highly textured, but it is mathematically lossless. You can go ahead and save out as jpeg for your deliverable, of course.

Alternately, you could do your Illustrator work, then import that back into PS to do your final export from there. That's actually the method I prefer since I understand how Photoshop handles vectors better than I do how Illustrator handles a raster.

By the way, I'll second the recommendation for Robin Williams' books. I got a lot of use from The Non-Designer's Type Book. Very accessible and practical.

[xpian]

Midgardsormr is right, of course. JPEG should only be a final output format, suitable for sharing on the web, and never a workflow format. Use TIFF, PNG, even Raster EPS to hold your pixels pristine while you're layering vectors on top of them. Then use Save For Web to create an optimized JPEG of the right size and quality.