The communities thoughts on software-assistance in map design

[3l3phant]

I know it's subjective, but I'm curious what the community's thoughts are on using software like this for creating maps:

http://www.3d-map-generator.com/3d-map-generator-geo/

I've done one map via a combination of hand-drawing and Photoshop manipulation, but the 3d map generator thing seem to me to be entirely different. Do folk here have thoughts on whether they would be "cheating"? There are concepts that I have in my head but insufficient skill to translate them to paper (or to the screen). In your mind(s) does using something like this detract from the end product?

[johnvanvliet]

at $15 USD it is cheep
but other programs that run on Linux , Apple, and yes Micro"bleeped" windows are free under the GPL / mit / bsd license

and from the screenshots it looks about right for $15 i would NOT !!!!! pay more than that for this ( $5 or $10 might be better )
one of the longtime members here and a mod created "Wilbur" , not a bad bit of codding and for free - it is really nice .

i use Blender and Gimp and a few other programs to make a heightmap then a terrain to drape over it
Then render it in blender

An Example : the minor planet Ceres
https://goo.gl/photos/iAtFUPmE4QVxpcY29


or this 100% created in blender
https://www.cartographersguild.com/a...chmentid=87299
--
https://www.cartographersguild.com/a...chmentid=81581

[waldronate]

There is no such thing as cheating. Some folks will tell you that you're cheating unless you boil the galls, raise the geese, and scrape the hides yourself, but I disagree. Some folks will froth at the lips as they screech about how critical it is to be able to build all your own software from source code. Some folks will look down disdainfully at any attempt you make to profit from your own work.

I think that any tool that you can use that gives you your desired effect at what you consider an acceptable cost is a good tool for you to use.

[Mouse]

I'm with Waldronate

I also think that while the process is often intriguing, it is far more important to judge a finished map by its particular qualities as a map, than by the make and brand of the tool that was glimpsed in the cartographer's hand.

EDIT: That is not to say that credit should not be given where credit is due to the creator of a piece of software or a symbol used in a map, which is a separate issue to whether it is cheating to bypass the remaking of the wheel every time you sit down to draw a map

[Redrobes]

If you had to dig a vegetable patch you dont have to hew your own ore and forge your own spade. Only the taste of the veg counts.

Software can exceed hand made in some respects and will prevent certain other aspects. What style your after determines what tool you need to do the job. Sometimes thats a pen but other times a piece of software that can generate your result for you may be a better option. And often its better to make a map with a tool your familiar and skilled with rather than using a better tool that your unfamiliar with.

[Wingshaw]

It's a good question, and the answer, I think, depends on your reasons for creating the map, and the type of map you want to make.

First, I think that if you use a tool that is not of your own creation, it is not a bad idea to credit the original creator of that tool. This doesn't necessarily mean giving credit to Faber Castell because you used their pencils, but there's no harm in saying that a map is hand-drawn with pencil and pen, or made in Photoshop etc. Certainly, if using another person's product, such as Wilbur, acknowledge that that is how you made the map. That, I think, is both fair to the maker, and also helps other mapmakers find tools that suit their purposes.

Second, if you are creating a map to serve a particular purpose, such as for gaming or a novel, then you can do whatever you want, to get the desired effect.

As an artist, however, I would not be comfortable claiming credit for something where I did not have a significant part to play in its creation. If I could click a button and get a fully realised map, then I am not the artist of that piece. If I click the button, get something mostly finished, and I make some adjustments, but the basic thing is random or automated, then I still wouldn't take full credit. But I'm happy to use tools to assist me in my work, such as SketchUp, Wilbur, or other generators.

That's my two cents

THW

[3l3phant]

Thank you all! I really appreciate the responses!

I was looking at one of the pages johnvanvliet linked to and it has this line, "Likewise, we specialize in computer-assisted cartography (such as with GIMP, Adobe apps, Campaign Cartographer, Dundjinni, etc.), although many members here also have interest in maps drafted by hand." Which I think sums up the responses.

I had to admit, I've had the various Campaign Cartographer versions but haven't really played around with them because (in addition to their complexity ) I wanted to try the hand drawn route. I did and I really like what I ended up with, but I'd like to try and push my imagination and see the end result, which my current skills just don't allow (although eventually I hope that changes).

Thanks again, and I'll definitely post whatever monstrosity I come up with.

[J.Edward]

Ravells, I think, had posted about this a while back and it looked like it would be fun to mess around with.
I couldn't use it because I don't have/use photoshop CC, so it wasn't an option.

I'd start by saying everything beyond your body is a tool. Pencil, paper, photoshop, wilbur, terragen, sketchup, whatever.
They're all tools. A chisel, an old hand saw, a chainsaw, a cnc wood machine... all tools.
People make things with tools.

Various people have opinions about the things made with tools and even the the value of a thing based on the tool used.
Those are all opinions and equally subject to acceptance or disdain. I'm sure everyone knows the phrase about opinions... everyone has one and... [well, you know ]

Tools help people make things. But tools don't make things of their own accord.
People make things. With tools.
My tools might be this or that, but other people may use different tools.
The tools you use shouldn't have an impact on the quality or value of what you create.
A wonderful map is a wonderful map. No matter how it is created.

All that said, one thing does stand out though.
Sometimes people can be limited by what tools they use.
I used to try all sorts of things to try to create fantastic environments.
Mainly because I couldn't draw them how I wanted. I didn't have the skills.
So I tried to use tools to help me. I worked with terragen and Vue Infinite and sketchup and other software.
All of that was a great learning experience. But it still was hard and still left me with less control than I wanted.

Eventually, through much hard work, I did get the skills I had been after for so long.
Tools are there to help you achieve a task. People should not disparage the tools, or people who use tools.
We're not cavemen anymore, thankfully, and we use tools all the time.
Tools are so wonderful and helpful.
And tool makers never get enough credit for how much they help us and make our lives better, easier, with the tools they create.
Just don't let your tools limit what you can do.

[3l3phant]

> I'd start by saying everything beyond your body is a tool.

I never thought about it in this context. Starting with a paint brush to do paint by numbers and eventually painting purely from imagination is a similar concept (I think). At least with tool I'll (again, I think ) get a chance to create what I'm going for and it sounds like the community's consensus is the goal.

Again, thank you all. I really appreciate the time everyone took to share their thoughts.

- 3

[Gamerprinter]

While I certainly create purely digital maps, I am also known for my hand-drawn/vector bevel hybrid style in which I hand-draw terrain features and elevation changes, then digitally scan and import to my preferred graphics application (Xara Designer Pro x11, a vector drawing program) which I use to trace the hand-drawn main objects (hills, etc.) and placed beveled shapes in color beneath the line work. So I do both hand-drawn and computer finished work extensively.

Here is an example of what I mean...



GP