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Thread: Help for Paint.NET etc, please

  1. #11
      ravells is offline
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    Isoc! hi!!!!

    I use photoshop and Serif drawplus....the former has a big learning curve the latter is like Xara....jump in and you'll be making traveller maps in no time! Great to see you here!

  2. #12
    Guild Adept icosahedron's Avatar
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    Well, I can't remember where I heard Xara was difficult, the info was just tucked away in my head. However, there are several quotes here to say it isn't, so maybe I'll check it out as an alternative.

    There are two main deficiencies with Paint that are becoming more of a problem to me (no doubt there are more) and I don't think any amount of skill (which I don't have anyway) would overcome them.

    1) No negative zoom. It's extremely tiresome trying to get an overview of a large drawing, when you can only see one corner of it at a time.

    2) No facility for transparency. A major project will be to create simple objects to drop onto maps and they look pretty awful surrounded by white rectangles. I have a version of Paint on one machine that will create jpegs but not pngs, however my latest one won't handle anything but bmps. ????

    The problem with over-complex and unfamiliar software is that I have to wade through a lot of stuff I don't need, in order to find the stuff I do need, and that takes time I don't have. It's like trying to find the switch for the mapreading light on the pilot's console of a 747. It's much easier and quicker to find the same switch in a Landrover!

    Great if you need all those professional doo-dads, but if you don't even know what they're for, much less how they're used, they're just so much additional clutter and more of a hindrance than a help. A lear jet isn't the transport of choice if all you want to do is pick up your groceries from the supermarket.

    The reason I was asking about Paint.net is that it claims to be based on Paint, so I shouldn't have to waste time relearning the basics, just figure out the extra controls I do need - If it has them.

    Which brings me to my original question...
    Mapping a Traveller ATU.

    See my (fantasy-based) apprenticeship blog at:

    http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/vi...forums&sx=1024

    Look for Chit Chat, Sandmann's blog. Enjoy.

  3. #13
    Guild Adept icosahedron's Avatar
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    Hi Ravells,
    BTW, thsnks for your tip about exporting MS Word Draw into Powerpoint to get a jpeg. I've used that a couple of times already. MSWD is the best thing I've got for gradients at pres.
    Mapping a Traveller ATU.

    See my (fantasy-based) apprenticeship blog at:

    http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/vi...forums&sx=1024

    Look for Chit Chat, Sandmann's blog. Enjoy.

  4. #14
      jfrazierjr is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by icosahedron View Post
    The problem with over-complex and unfamiliar software is that I have to wade through a lot of stuff I don't need, in order to find the stuff I do need, and that takes time I don't have. It's like trying to find the switch for the mapreading light on the pilot's console of a 747. It's much easier and quicker to find the same switch in a Landrover!
    Sorry, I don't mean to sound belligerent, but I believe you may be over complicating things.
    Help for Paint.NET etc, please-gimp-vs.-ms-paint.jpg

    One big difference with GIMP is that there are multiple windows. It took me all of an hour to get totally comfortable with this paradigm(long than the switch from Windows XP to Vista for sure.)

    Note that if you compare the toolboxes, almost everything that is in MS Paint has a direct equivalent in GIMP and the few things that are not toolbox items are simple 1-3 step changes that take seconds difference.

    I believe GIMP can do everything Paint.Net can, and is just as easy to learn and has more features you CAN use to boot. However, in no way are those features in your way until you learn how to use them. On top of that, there are far more people here who have experience with GIMP than with Paint.net. Of course, I "think" Paint.Net has their own forums if you really want to stay in that direction.
    My Finished Maps
    Works in Progress(or abandoned tests)
    My Tutorials:
    Explanation of Layer Masks in GIMP
    How to create ISO Mountains in GIMP/PS using the Smudge tool
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    Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.

  5. #15
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    Paint.NET (hereafter called PDN) does have transparency as an option, does have negative zoom, and does have the "render clouds" option that seems so darn useful for randomizing one's coastlines and such (I've been memorizing tutorials since signing on a few days ago). Oddly, since folks have suggested Corel PSP and others, I've been hunting through my programs and test-driving them again. Turns out I have used Corel before, but hang me if I can find the clouds option or any random render, fractals, any of that..!

    Those more familiar with other programs may want to help us beginners, by http://www.getpaint.net/ and giving us a comparison with GIMP and the rest of them.

    The only thing I haven't found so far in PDN is a layer mask, but I seem to be able to approximate them (or at least, what I think they're supposed to do) without too much trouble.

    Cheers!

    Also, from what I'm reading here, GIMP supports user-made scripts and such, yes? PDN does also.

  6. #16
    Guild Adept icosahedron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrazierjr View Post
    Sorry, I don't mean to sound belligerent,
    Neither do I, and re-reading my post, I may have seemed to be. I apologise to anyone who might have been offended.

    It's just that I had a bad experience with CC2, which FAR outstripped my time and patience, and now anytime someone says 'steep learning curve' (an accusation which has been levelled at a number of programs used here, including GIMP) I'm afraid I switch off - sometimes a little too abruptly.

    I still don't have a lot of confidence that something described as easy by experts and industry professionals will necessarily be easy to old 'all thumbs' here.


    I just looked at the Xara website, and found the only version listed is Xara Extreme (as you can imagine, the title is immediate anathema to me) and it says it won't talk to anything older than XP.

    Now if I could find 'Xara Elementary for Win9x', I might give it a whirl...


    Thanks for the info on Paint.Net, Heather.
    It's looking promising if I can find a version old enough to talk to my machine.
    Mapping a Traveller ATU.

    See my (fantasy-based) apprenticeship blog at:

    http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/vi...forums&sx=1024

    Look for Chit Chat, Sandmann's blog. Enjoy.

  7. #17
      Redrobes is offline
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    Ico, I use PSP but its got a lot more in it than you need really. What you need is the old Deluxe Paint from the old Amiga days. Well it seems there is a clone of it here.

    http://www.memecode.com/image.php

    It runs on Win98 and is a lightweight image editor. I havent used it but I used DPaint a lot and it was fun at the time. Very easy to use.

    Its open source LGPL for those interested in that kind of thing.

  8. #18
      Redrobes is offline
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    I tried that DPaint clone and I didnt get on well with it. This one is much better tho.

    http://www.artweaver.de/index.php?en_version

    In fact I really like this. It has a minimal set of stuff but all the right stuff. Even includes a few filters like clouds which is needed for all the dirt and stuff we need. Another Freeware job too.

    Edit -- its really good and fast and I was getting quite excited by it. Then "Im sorry Artweaver needs to close..." lost it right there.
    Dang. Almost.
    Last edited by Redrobes; 03-10-2009 at 07:24 PM.

  9. #19
      jfrazierjr is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by icosahedron View Post
    Neither do I, and re-reading my post, I may have seemed to be. I apologise to anyone who might have been offended.

    It's just that I had a bad experience with CC2, which FAR outstripped my time and patience, and now anytime someone says 'steep learning curve' (an accusation which has been levelled at a number of programs used here, including GIMP) I'm afraid I switch off - sometimes a little too abruptly.
    That's ok. I can understand your frustration with CC2 as I had the same and did not have tons of time to devote to learning it. I went first with Fractal Mapper instead. After a while, I realized I wanted to try to learn to do something more painterly, came here, switched to GIMP and did all the GIMP tutorials and away I went. Unfortunately, if your stuck on Windows 9x, then GIMP(Win2000+) is out anyway as is Fractal Mapper(WinXP+), at least the latest versions.

    I will repeat though, if you ever get a new machine, I would highly recommend GIMP as an increadible image tool which you can't beat for the price and features it offers. I tried Paint.Net a few months ago after having learn GIMP and there were just to many features I rely on heavily in GIMP that were missing with no "easy" workaround in PDN. Also, unfortunatly, there are very few people who use PDN here, so while we might be able to help you make the most of your talent in making maps, there will likely be little help in the way of how to do something specific in PDN.
    My Finished Maps
    Works in Progress(or abandoned tests)
    My Tutorials:
    Explanation of Layer Masks in GIMP
    How to create ISO Mountains in GIMP/PS using the Smudge tool
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.

  10. #20
    Guild Adept icosahedron's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. I downloaded that memecode thing, I'll have a look at it. The Artweaver one says on the website that it's a WIP with some problems. It might be worth taking another look at that when they are ready to publish V1.0.

    It would be nice if these software manufacturers would keep an archive file on their websites where those of us without the latest computer technology could download older versions.
    Mapping a Traveller ATU.

    See my (fantasy-based) apprenticeship blog at:

    http://www.viewing.ltd.uk/cgi-bin/vi...forums&sx=1024

    Look for Chit Chat, Sandmann's blog. Enjoy.

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