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Thread: Phonotactics Question/Help

  1. #11
      Alex is offline
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    Sorry this is late! Had to head to the store in practically another state >.>

    Oh I am having a lot of fun, especially when picking sounds, but I do want the SS created so people can read my thread and possibly learn my language later. I have been questioned about it for my language, and I had no idea it was created so they said I should learn about it. So...here I am.

    *Root Canal? Ouchies! I had one this year too...I know how ya feel about the air conditioner too! lol I hope your days get better *

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stark View Post
    And SS structure works for separate syllables of the word?
    Yeah, you repeat the syllable structure for each syllable.
    Like "ga-ba-te-koot"'s SS would be be for each syllable and would look like (C)(V)(V)(C), right?
    One of those vowels isn't going to be optional. Unless your language allows syllables without vowels. Which a few might, though personally I'd prefer a conlang I can pronounce.

    I'd say that's (C)V(C).

    (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C).
    ga-ba-te-ko-ot

    Or
    (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C).
    ga-ba-te-koot
    if koot is just a single syllable with a single long vowel.

  3. #13
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    Yeah, you repeat the syllable structure for each syllable.
    Ah! Okay then, that helps much!

    One of those vowels isn't going to be optional. Unless your language allows syllables without vowels. Which a few might, though personally I'd prefer a conlang I can pronounce.

    I'd say that's (C)V(C).

    (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C).
    ga-ba-te-ko-ot

    Or
    (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C) - (C)V(C).
    ga-ba-te-koot
    if koot is just a single syllable with a single long vowel.
    Hehe, thanks for explaining this to me, zaffu!

    What about if something like this: (C)(C)(V)V(C)(C)? Would it work like this: "Chaust" = ch *(C)(C)* - au *(V)V* - st *(C)(C)*

    Or could (C)(C)V(C)(C) work and for two vowels together (diphthongs etc), you build it as such "ae au ua oa ao ay ow ey" and it would be legal for the one obligated Vowel in the SS? What I mean is this: (C)V*also stands for diphthongs*(C)

    And for nasal vowels or liquid consonants, they get their own separate () or lack of in the SS, right? Or do you include nasals within the Vs and LC within the Cs? What I mean is: (C*also liquids*)V*also nasal vowels*(C*also liquids*)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stark View Post
    What about if something like this: (C)(C)(V)V(C)(C)? Would it work like this: "Chaust" = ch *(C)(C)* - au *(V)V* - st *(C)(C)*
    You could simplify that. "ch" is an affricate, so I'd just count it as one consonant. And yes, I'd just count diphthongs as single vowels too.

    And for nasal vowels or liquid consonants, they get their own separate () or lack of in the SS, right? Or do you include nasals within the Vs and LC within the Cs? What I mean is: (C*also liquids*)V*also nasal vowels*(C*also liquids*)
    When you see something like (n) that means you can use an optional "n" in that particular position (but only "n"). Or (r,l,n) means you can use an optional "r" or an "l" or an "n" in that position, but not any other consonant. But (C) means you can use any consonant, including nasals, liquids, stops and so on in that position. r, l, m, n, etc. are all members of the set of Consonants, C. So no, they don't have to be specified seperately if you mean "all consonants."

    But you do see them specified seperately a lot, because consonant clusters that include a nasal or a liquid are allowed in more languages than consonant clusters that are any two+ consonants thrown together. Like, more languages will let a word start with "pra" or "bla" than "pka" or "bza."

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    You could simplify that. "ch" is an affricate, so I'd just count it as one consonant. And yes, I'd just count diphthongs as single vowels too.
    Ah, okay then! I think I'm understanding this now! Thank you so much!
    *Yea, /tɕ/ is single xD*

    When you see something like (n) that means you can use an optional "n" in that particular position (but only "n"). Or (r,l,n) means you can use an optional "r" or an "l" or an "n" in that position, but not any other consonant. But (C) means you can use any consonant, including nasals, liquids, stops and so on in that position. r, l, m, n, etc. are all members of the set of Consonants, C. So no, they don't have to be specified seperately if you mean "all consonants."

    But you do see them specified seperately a lot, because consonant clusters that include a nasal or a liquid are allowed in more languages than consonant clusters that are any two+ consonants thrown together. Like, more languages will let a word start with "pra" or "bla" than "pka" or "bza."
    Okay then, I guess I would just keep it as (C) so I don't over confuse the matter later, or something. Best to keep it small, I think.

    Thanks so much zaffu for all the help! I appreciate it very, very much! :3 If I have something else to ask about Syllable Structure, may I ask it here?

    Okay, now all I have to do is learn about SOV order and then I can move on.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stark View Post
    If I have something else to ask about Syllable Structure, may I ask it here?
    Go ahead. If I know the answer (or if I think I know the answer ), I'll try to help.

    Happy conlanging!

  7. #17
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    Thanks for answering my questions and offering help for me zaffu!

    I have been working on it, and I would like to ask if I am properly understanding it.

    Here is a SS I made:

    (C)(C)V(C)(C)(V)(C)

    R (C) o V th (C) a i (V) [< Rothai]

    S (C) c (C) a V l (C) [< Scal]
    h (C) e V r (C) a (V) [< hera]

    L(C) y V g (C) i (V) [< Lygi]
    t (C) u V d (C) a (V) [< tuda]

    R (C) e V n (C) [< Ren]
    z (C) i V n (C) [< zin]
    So if I may ask, am I grasping what it is and how it is formed...?

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    I think you've got the basic idea. (C)(C)V(C)(C)(V)(C) looks like more than a single syllable, but I think I understand what you mean...a word can start with up to two consonants (scal), have a consonant cluster of up to two consonants in the middle, and end in a vowel or a single consonant.

  9. #19
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    Is that bad? Having more than one single syllable? I intended on it being the longest a word can get, or rather...well, I'm not sure how to explain xD

    And yea, it can start with two consonants (*sc*), must have a vowel (can also be diphthongs *a*), and can have two consonants near the end either before or after the optional vowel.

    The reason I made that SS is because I want a SS that is formed around the already premade words:

    Rothai
    Scalhera
    Lygituda
    Renzin


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Stark View Post
    Is that bad? Having more than one single syllable?
    If you need two syllables to best explain how your language works, go right ahead and use 'em.

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