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Thread: Community Demographics

  1. #21
      esmale is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPMiller
    I see, but those "extras" are not counted into the work force per se right? I mean they are dropped out when it comes to determining the "workers". Of course some are probably of working age... Yea, that would be a difficult figure to put in.
    No, they're not specifically accounted for in the workforce, and the GM needs to do some interpretation.

    If you need to figure actual "workers," here are some guidelines off the top of my head:
    • Freeholders would in most cases be guildsmen (depending on how industry is set up in the setting); they may have one or two younger apprentices
    • The less skilled the work, the younger the worker can be. As a result, a smith's apprentice might start at 12-15 years, but a farmer's 4-year-old can help herd sheep
    • Young children will almost always be tasked with domestic chores, as early as they can be trusted to do them: laundering clothes, gathering firewood (an endless task), running errands, tending animals, farming/herding, etc.)

    As a result, a freeholder family of 4.5 might consist of a father, his apprentice son, and a mother who raises 1.5 younger kids :wink:

    A citizen/farmer family of 4.25 might consist of a father who works the land, with the help of his wife and 2.25 kids.

    Or consider a city officer--these were drawn from the citizenry, and historically were tenants just like other farmers. An officer's family of 4.25 might consist of a father who does his bit as reeve, messor, or woodward, but he won't have an apprentice, leaving his wife and children to run the farm, or perhaps his oldest son to apprentice out to a freeholder.

    So, basically, you can carve out your workforce from the total population however you see fit. The only "rule" would be that workforce cannot consist of nobles, clergy, or officers (though, as noted, officers' families can be in the workforce).

    Hope that doesn't muddy things up too much!

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Chimera RPG:
    Guidelines for Multi-genre Roleplaying
    http://www.welshpiper.com/

  2. #22
      RPMiller is offline
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    Oh it muddied it up just fine.

    Thanks I'll certainly try to keep all that straight.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by esmale
    Quote Originally Posted by annadobritt
    Excellent! And thank you for getting rid of the hexes and kilometers.
    Well, I'm the Champion of Imperial Measurement!

    Quote Originally Posted by annadobritt
    Having a doc available containing explanations of the various boxes and the results they give would be nice to have.
    I agree, though I'll need some time to get that together, and I can't commit to a date just now. For now, here's a the best I can do:

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Heh. I flunked learning metrics in school many, many, many moons ago. (Add a couple more many for good measure. )

    What you posted so far explaining things helps a great deal. Thanks much, Erin.

    One question: how easy is it to add additional information for businesses and services? I figure you have to add stuff in more than one spot in the code, right?

    Now to print out everything from this topic.
    Anna M. Dobritt
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPMiller
    Oh it muddied it up just fine.

    Thanks I'll certainly try to keep all that straight.
    Muddling is good for the brain, makes it work more.
    Anna M. Dobritt
    Cartography Unlimited for RPGs
    http://www.rpgcartography.com

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      esmale is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by annadobritt
    One question: how easy is it to add additional information for businesses and services? I figure you have to add stuff in more than one spot in the code, right?
    It's not too hard, but you're right--you have to add it in the javascript, then make a spot for it on the web page (HTML file). You're talking about adding new businesses or other population segments, right?

    Not difficult, and (frankly) not time-consuming if you just copy and paste some of the existing code to handle the new material.

    Go for it!

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Chimera RPG:
    Guidelines for Multi-genre Roleplaying
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      esmale is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPMiller
    Oh it muddied it up just fine.

    Thanks I'll certainly try to keep all that straight.
    Well, I'll try to post some explanation in a formal article--hope I wasn't too confusing

    I'll post a note when it's online, but I don't expect to get to it before June.

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Chimera RPG:
    Guidelines for Multi-genre Roleplaying
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  7. #27
      Zurik is offline
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    Post vacant buildings

    Interesting topic!

    Depending on what's happening in your world (plague, growth control, whatever) I would also expect a small percentage of vacant structures.

    Also, I'm curious how people deal with fantasy races in exercises like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esmale
    Quote Originally Posted by RPMiller
    Oh it muddied it up just fine.

    Thanks I'll certainly try to keep all that straight.
    Well, I'll try to post some explanation in a formal article--hope I wasn't too confusing

    I'll post a note when it's online, but I don't expect to get to it before June.

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    No it wasn't too confusing, it just took some rereading a couple times. :wink:

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      esmale is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPMiller
    No it wasn't too confusing, it just took some rereading a couple times. :wink:
    That, and the fact that I wrote the response at work, which probably isn't helping me write with a clear head.

    That said, a quick-and-dirty way to find a settlement's workforce is, given an average freeholder family size of 4.5 and an average citizen family of 4.25:
    • Take the number of businesses and multiply by 3.0; this reflects artisan/guild workers, journeymen, apprentices, etc.
    • Take the number of homes and multiply by 3.25; this reflects the number of "normal" workers (farmers, loggers, shepherds, miners, fishermen, etc.)

    One could certainly adjust the multipliers above. My logic leaves about 1.5 children of non-working age per freeholder family and 1.0 children of non-working age per citizen household. YMMV

    I should note, though, that these aren't necessarily documented; I'm making an educated guess based on my own research into life on a manor/fief.

    Does this do a better job of answering your original question?

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Chimera RPG:
    Guidelines for Multi-genre Roleplaying
    http://www.welshpiper.com/

  10. #30
      esmale is offline
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    Post Re: vacant buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurik
    Depending on what's happening in your world (plague, growth control, whatever) I would also expect a small percentage of vacant structures.
    I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. I think the age of the community (i.e., how long the settlement has existed, not how old people are) would influence this, too.

    However, a lot of material I've read on medieval fiefs suggest that most buildings were cheap. Peasant/serf homes were not made to last, and often rebuilt every two years. A new house would be built close to the old one, which might be used for storage, animal shelter, or just cleared for croft space/acreage.

    Another factor is that farm- or pastureland is more valuable than an empty structure, meaning that abandoned buildings will either be razed for growing or grazing land, re-occupied, or re-purposed. Which option probably depends on the structure:

    Assuming no heirs (very rare), a peasant's home would probably be razed, and the land transferred back to the local liege, who would turn around and rent it to a a tennant for a percentage of produce or scutage; if the land in question were big enough, the liege might subinfeudate, but this was not always desirable, since the new vassal owed no fealty to the liege's liege (if that makes sense).

    Other structures would probably meet a different fate: industrial buildings would probably be re-used, or, at worst, cannibalised for building materials. Stone structures, especially fortifications, would probably be re-occupied, unless their locations grew too remote as a result of seasonal, climate, geographic, or migratory changes.

    Given all that, I suppose a good rule of thumb is that vacant structures exist only when the land they're on is of no use, they lack reusable building materials, or there's no benefit to re-populating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zurik
    Also, I'm curious how people deal with fantasy races in exercises like this.
    There is a conspicuous lack of detail about this in the mediaeval record

    Unfortunately, this is a matter for individual GMs, as racial characteristics are likely to vary from campaign to campaign. Given racial stereotypes, though, one can extrapolate from the human-centric model:
    • Dwarf - prevalence of industry, especially those related to mining, smithing, gemcraft, masonry, armour- and weaponcraft, and possibly scribes. Lower the incidence of foresters, roofers, shipwrights, tinkers, and woodcrafters. Settlements will be built almost exclusively on mining or craftsman economy; some (disgusting, cave-grown) food will be produced, but most will be imported from surface communities; that said, there dwarf settlements are a niche market for salters...
    • Elf - lots of apothecaries, artists, chandlers (possibly overlapping the realm of the apothecary), foresters, furriers, glassworkers, jewelers, sages/heralds, vintners, and woodcrafters. In turn, there will be fewer locksmiths, masons, miners, and (perhaps) metalsmiths. Economies would probably be based on trade in goods, supplemented with light agriculture.
    • Halfling - certainly heavy on agriculture and food-related industries (innkeepers for beer, vintners for other beverages, salters, taverns, millers, and butchers). I'd also see a lot of "comfort" industries, like cobblers, furriers, weavers, tailors, tanners, and potters. There would be fewer armour- and weaponcrafters, locksmiths, foresters, shipwrights, and adventurers. Most of the local economy would be agrarian, but there would probably also be a lot of trade (make sure to add teamsters if this is the case).

    Again, these are stereotypes, so they won't fit in every campaign.

    In any case, though, all you'd have to do is adjust the frequency of each business in the Low-Fantasy Population tool. These values are found in the 'pop_functions.js' file; just make sure you save a copy of the original (perhaps you might make separate copies for each racial type).

    Hope this helps!

    Cheers,
    -Erin
    Chimera RPG:
    Guidelines for Multi-genre Roleplaying
    http://www.welshpiper.com/

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