Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 102

Thread: OMG .... WOTC does it again

  1. #11
      Valarian is offline
    Guild Adept Valarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Worcestershire, UK
    Posts
    330

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by torstan View Post
    PS Just to appeal to all the anti-WotC among us (I'm a 3.5 player so don't actually have that much of a problem with them) - they recently screwed up by releasing a 'screenshot' of gametable where they had just stolen the dice from a screen-grab of Fantasy Grounds. Whoops.
    I notice that they've now corrected this error on their website. The dice are now blue, rather than red and showing the same numbers and orientation as the Fantasy Grounds screenshot.
    Google Groups for FGII Games:
    European FG2 RPG - Fridays & Sundays (8pm UK time)
    Using Ultimate FGII and can accept unlicensed player connections on some of the games

  2. #12
    Community Leader Facebook Connected delgondahntelius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    Sorry ... I kinda lost my cool back there... I'm not cool or hip or whatever the kids are saying these days, to what goes on or whats coming out, so it was news to me... here I am ... working on an adventure (3.5) for print/PDF and battlemaps and tokens to go with it (primarily to be used with map tools... but I'll hopefully be able to get them working with Vdale as well.) ANYHOO ... working a little extra hard, so much so that I hadn't even stepped foot into the challenge this month... and there is WotC ... with a little itty bitty teensy weensy link for a (3d even) VTT .... I almost puked on the desk...

    I love D&D, been at it since I was a pup. After NK posted up that little comic ... I decided to suck it up and go ahead and give 4e its due ... and quit b!#$$*&% about it. Even to the degree of jumping on the bandwagon and developing the favorite flavor of the month "Point Of Lights" idea... (Posts to come later on that) I love the game .. I love to map.. I love RPG's ... but I LOATHE WotC ... and sure.. its business... if I owned a quadzilliongazillionaire company .. I'd want more!.. Monopolies are a tradition in this country, but quite frankly .. I hope they choke on it... I think RRobes may be right though, WotC doesn't really want to corner the VTT market .. if they did.. we'd all be suited up in our virtual chairs, walking around in some MMP RPG killing things.... oh wait.. Blizzard already beat them to it ..

    All for one... None for Them!

    Torstan.. how is 4e going to affect MAPtools? what kind of impact will it have?
    Don't Forget!! Rate a Tutorial Today; Add a TAG to a thread today; CLICK on a GOOGLE ADLINK once today!

  3. #13
      jfrazierjr is offline
    Community Leader jfrazierjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Apex, NC USA
    Posts
    2,963

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by delgondahntelius View Post
    I love D&D, been at it since I was a pup. After NK posted up that little comic ... I decided to suck it up and go ahead and give 4e its due ... and quit b!#$$*&% about it. Even to the degree of jumping on the bandwagon and developing the favorite flavor of the month "Point Of Lights" idea... (Posts to come later on that) I love the game .. I love to map.. I love RPG's ... but I LOATHE WotC ... and sure.. its business... if I owned a quadzilliongazillionaire company .. I'd want more!...
    Ditto your first sentence.

    I personally would expect that 99% of the strong arm tactics comes from the Hasbro lawyers rather than the executives from WotC. Remember that they were the ones who opened up the core rules in 3.x in the first place. I believe WotC understood the importance of the fans and giving them choices to play the game in the way that best suites the players, while allowing the company to be innovative and still make money.


    Quote Originally Posted by delgondahntelius View Post
    Torstan.. how is 4e going to affect MAPtools? what kind of impact will it have?
    I don't think that much. I know the movement rules will have to be customized for the new diagonal rules. Perhaps someone will want to use the deck tool (not sure how it works) to kind of store up a players powers in some way and that would probably need some work to accomidate. I really can't see any hugh changes needed by Maptool based on what I know of the 4e game at this point.

    Joe
    My Finished Maps
    Works in Progress(or abandoned tests)
    My Tutorials:
    Explanation of Layer Masks in GIMP
    How to create ISO Mountains in GIMP/PS using the Smudge tool
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Unless otherwise stated by me in the post, all work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.

  4. #14
      torstan is offline
    Community Leader Facebook Connected torstan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4,142

    Post

    The developers over at maptool have added in the diagonal measurement rules for 4th edition that can be swiched on/off in preferences. There are discussions about using the deck tool for power cards and a load of people have been creating their own macros for the 4th edition powers. The tool itself won't change much but it has the flexibility for users to ad 4th edition content just as Hero gamers or Savage worlds people can adapt the tool for those systems.

    I think the diagonal movement rules were the only thing that actually required a coding change and that's already in (but the path finding algorithm is still being tweaked to deal with it - non-Euclidean geommetry unsurprisingly screwed with it a bit!).

    As for gametable - I was pleased to note that none of the rules are hard-coded in. In principle this means you could use it for 3.5 or even 1st edition if you wanted. This surprised me a little from WotC. Okay, so its not exactly system agnostic, but it's better than I expected.
    Fantasy Map Blog | My food illustration
    Everything I post is free for use and redistribution under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 licence, except where noted otherwise in the thread.

  5. #15
    Community Leader Facebook Connected delgondahntelius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    A, A
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    I think it was a choice of bogging down the game with hard coded rules... or hitting it fast and loose ... which 4e pretty much does... once a DM gets his bearings that is...

    Those who loved all the rules of movement and combat and how the mechanics of 3.x covered everything from sneezing to water hockey ... are going to have the hardest transition into 4e (and probably whine the most ... you hide and watch) this time at least they got the part about fast play in ... (not fast character creation... )

    As a DM ... I found that Monsters are a bit harder to deal with ... its a lot of info and things changed up .. vastly in some areas... I can't open my MM and find Kuo Toa's to throw at a couple three second level players... cause they level off at 15th .... ?? things like that... I don't care much for their Encounter Generation Method... (confusing at first, buying your creatures like you would buy an army ... for a miniatures game... ) ... still its all mechanics ... just a different way to deal with game functions...

    I"m just gonna come up with my own System.... Market that.. lol
    Don't Forget!! Rate a Tutorial Today; Add a TAG to a thread today; CLICK on a GOOGLE ADLINK once today!

  6. #16
      Valarian is offline
    Guild Adept Valarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Worcestershire, UK
    Posts
    330

    Default

    More on the WotC dice graphics piracy. SmiteWorks have issued a cease and desist order on WotC, who responded by saying that they were from an "early design document" and that they used "3d models not 2d images".

    Links:
    http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums...ead.php?t=8457
    http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1043881

    Interesting "apology" from Scott Rouse at the end of the gleemax thread
    Google Groups for FGII Games:
    European FG2 RPG - Fridays & Sundays (8pm UK time)
    Using Ultimate FGII and can accept unlicensed player connections on some of the games

  7. #17
      NeonKnight is offline
    Community Leader NeonKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada, EH!
    Posts
    5,019

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by delgondahntelius View Post
    I think it was a choice of bogging down the game with hard coded rules... or hitting it fast and loose ... which 4e pretty much does... once a DM gets his bearings that is...

    Those who loved all the rules of movement and combat and how the mechanics of 3.x covered everything from sneezing to water hockey ... are going to have the hardest transition into 4e (and probably whine the most ... you hide and watch) this time at least they got the part about fast play in ... (not fast character creation... )

    As a DM ... I found that Monsters are a bit harder to deal with ... its a lot of info and things changed up .. vastly in some areas... I can't open my MM and find Kuo Toa's to throw at a couple three second level players... cause they level off at 15th .... ?? things like that... I don't care much for their Encounter Generation Method... (confusing at first, buying your creatures like you would buy an army ... for a miniatures game... ) ... still its all mechanics ... just a different way to deal with game functions...

    I"m just gonna come up with my own System.... Market that.. lol

    I will admit, the game is FAST, way FASTER to play than previous editions. I tried to create a 1st level Paladin PC last night, and I will admit, I scratched my head a few time to try and find correct answers to some internal questions as some things just did not seem very Intuitive.

    As to the Monsters and building encounters based on an 'XP Budget' as they called it. It makes an internal sense to the game concept. The game is built around 10 encounters (on average) providing enough experience for a PC to level up. You take the number of players in your group and multiply that number by the XP value for a standard monster of their level to get your encounter budget.

    So, if you have 6 1st level players, an average 1st encounter should provide 100 XP to each PC, so each encounter should have 600 XP worth of monsters. I too took a few minutes to digest that, but it became clear when I sat down to adjust the encounters for my players knowing that sometimes not all of them show up, so I needed to figure out how to scale each encounter based on their being anywhere from 4 to 7 players.

    I honestly think this new game is at first glance mush more balanced than previous editions. I still have a hard time figuring out the 3.5 Challenge Rating versus Encounter Level concepts to build challenging encounters for my PCs.
    Daniel the Neon Knight: Campaign Cartographer User

    Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice!

    Any questions on CC3? Post them with CC3 in the Subject Line!
    MY 'FAMOUS' CC3 MAPS: Thunderspire; Pyramid of Shadows; King of the Trollhaunt Warrens; Demon Queen's Enclave

  8. #18
      GlennZilla is offline
    Guild Journeyer
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK USA
    Posts
    112

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by NeonKnight View Post
    I will admit, the game is FAST, way FASTER to play than previous editions.
    I agree. We've played the Keep on the Shadowfell and it's certianly a lot faster. We got through about 4 encounters in a session. Before it might be 2. This is after the learning curve, by the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by NeonKnight View Post
    I honestly think this new game is at first glance mush more balanced than previous editions. I still have a hard time figuring out the 3.5 Challenge Rating versus Encounter Level concepts to build challenging encounters for my PCs.
    Herein lies my concern. It seems like it's one kind of abstract math to balance the encounter versus another, Challenge Rating versus XP Budget. I haven't had a chance to try to make any encounters yet, so I'm witholding judgement until after I've run a few.

    I must admit that currently I'm liking 4e. Every character has something they can do. The level progression is steeper but each step has something to offer. First level doesn't feel underpowered at least. We've only played up to 3rd level. So we'll have to wait and see what it's like when we play higher levels.

  9. #19
      NeonKnight is offline
    Community Leader NeonKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Surrey, Canada, EH!
    Posts
    5,019

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennZilla View Post
    Herein lies my concern. It seems like it's one kind of abstract math to balance the encounter versus another, Challenge Rating versus XP Budget. I haven't had a chance to try to make any encounters yet, so I'm witholding judgement until after I've run a few.

    I must admit that currently I'm liking 4e. Every character has something they can do. The level progression is steeper but each step has something to offer. First level doesn't feel underpowered at least. We've only played up to 3rd level. So we'll have to wait and see what it's like when we play higher levels.
    Not really, if you look at a 1st level monster, it is pretty much equal to a 1st level PC in terms of powers/abilities. The PCs have an edge in that they have Healing Surges, second winds etc, but on the whole, a 1st level goblin is pretty equal to a first level fighter, with the edge going to the PC. Ergo, it makes sense that 5 of them is a good challenge for 5 PCs, because the PCs have abilites that give them an edge over the monster (marking, healing surges, action points, etc).

    Now, compare a 15th level Monster vs a 15 level PC, again, much the same abilities between the two (keep in mind compare skrimishers/soldiers with Fighter types, Artillery with Rangers/Wizards, etc). No matter what, the edge always goes to the PCs, and a balanced party will have an adequate challenge in each encounter.

    Again, I feel this is way more balanced than a 3.5 1st level Fighter vs a 3.5 Orc that scores a critical with it's great-axe!
    Daniel the Neon Knight: Campaign Cartographer User

    Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice!

    Any questions on CC3? Post them with CC3 in the Subject Line!
    MY 'FAMOUS' CC3 MAPS: Thunderspire; Pyramid of Shadows; King of the Trollhaunt Warrens; Demon Queen's Enclave

  10. #20
      Sigurd is offline
    Guild Artisan Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    880

    Post

    Well almost any speeding up of the game mechanics is welcome. They consume way too much DM time in 3.5.

    The big question though is not "are fewer rules an improvement" but are these the right reduced rules.....


    Sigurd

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •