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Thread: Ongoing project to map...everything.

  1. #21
      Askren is offline
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    Bunch of other projects on my plate right now, but I figured I would stop by and get some feedback on a thing I'm trying.

    This is something I've wanted to do with my dungeon/building walls for a while now, but haven't really attempted in the past. And let me tell you, I regret that this is the map I chose to do it on, because it's taking forever just to lay out enough for a general idea to extrapolate from.

    Still need a lot of tweaking and whatnot, but I feel like on the whole it's not terrible. So, yeah.

    Opinions?

    Ongoing project to map...everything.-brinewall-progress-2.jpg
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  2. #22
    Guild Artisan Jacktannery's Avatar
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    Might be good to articulate what you are trying to achieve. I've also been working on the same thing Askren, using various shades of near-black and off-white to make simple walls and columns within a photorealistic map, with varying levels of success. The main thing is: it's MUCH quicker, and in my mind it looks better. I like the way you are doing it above.

  3. #23
      Askren is offline
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    Oh, I thought it would be fairly obvious, but that may just be because I'm an idiot.

    I'm referring specifically to the center area of the map where I endeavored to overcome my rampant OCD need for textures to map logically by cutting and splicing brick textures so that they follow the walls in a "realistic" way, rather than just be one tiling texture overlay that has no regard for direction of the surface, etc.

    It's an agonizingly boring process, and unfortunately the amount I got done there was the result of like, two days of on-and-off work which was mostly me trying to solve stupid problems like the fact that most of the wall textures sit like, 2 pixels lower than the grid line even though all my walls should be perfectly even...

    But yeah, that's what I was trying to achieve. The black walls are the same as they were in every other iteration, just with their texture overlay turned off. Very much NOT the look I want.

  4. #24
      Raiko is offline
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    The walls look excellent so far Askren.

    I have similar OCD thoughts about walls (mostly triggered by Jacktannery's amazing Gardmore Abbey dungeon walls), and experimented with that style of walls for my current Dragon's Demand map while I was deciding between GIMP and CC3.

    I'm going to revisit such walls at some stage using CC3, but I'm convinced that the secret to laying down great looking bricked walls with absolute control is to use a combination of vector and raster mapping like Meshon did to produce these cobblestone streets, as described in this tutorial. Unfortunately I can't afford illustrator + photoshop, and GIMP / Inkscape don't behave nicely on my current laptop, because a known bug with the GTK+ toolset and some Windows 7/8 laptops.

  5. #25
    Guild Artisan Jacktannery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askren View Post
    Oh, I thought it would be fairly obvious, but that may just be because I'm an idiot.

    I'm referring specifically to the center area of the map where I endeavored to overcome my rampant OCD need for textures to map logically by cutting and splicing brick textures so that they follow the walls in a "realistic" way, rather than just be one tiling texture overlay that has no regard for direction of the surface, etc.

    It's an agonizingly boring process, and unfortunately the amount I got done there was the result of like, two days of on-and-off work which was mostly me trying to solve stupid problems like the fact that most of the wall textures sit like, 2 pixels lower than the grid line even though all my walls should be perfectly even...

    But yeah, that's what I was trying to achieve. The black walls are the same as they were in every other iteration, just with their texture overlay turned off. Very much NOT the look I want.
    Oh that's just hilarious! I thought it was the black walls you were talking about!

    Almost as funny, my reply almost works with the actual issue: I did briefly try to do walls like this; on only one map I think; here: http://www.cartographersguild.com/at...er-maps-z1.jpg however, as you noted, it just took too damned long. Since then I've reverted to a much more basic monochrome textureless wall. Swings and roundabouts!

    Riako, yes you are right about the cobblestone streets and vector mapping.

    I've also experimented with circular shapes - you can see here Big Castle (posts 25 & 26). I also did some work with Meshon (I think) in the communal theatre thread (in buildings forum I think) on the curving of wooden plank textures.

  6. #26
      Askren is offline
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    Man, I was probably going to swing around to that solution to making the towers, but I had anticipated it would come after a long process of trial-and-error of making the bricks fit one by one, which I was NOT looking forward to. So major props for the idea on the round areas. Those battlements are cool too, wouldn't mind snagging the PSD for those if you had it.

    Outside of that...yeah, it's tedious. But, I can never take the easy way out, so I'll probably stick it out. Unfortunately, I've got too many other maps on my plate right now to really put the time needed into just the one. Got both of my Pathfinder games rolling over into their next books, and I need to get all the maps ready for those, so less time every day.

  7. #27
      madcowchef is online now
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    Jack's solutions there are great. You can also make a brush and fake a lot of cobbling and bricking by laying it over a mortar or ground texture and using layer masks: The black in my brush I simply stroke the paths with that and toss some beveling on. I used the same path to make a layer beneath it with a bit large for the ground between the cobbles. All quick and hasty but you get the idea.

    Ongoing project to map...everything.-testcob.jpg
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  8. #28
      Askren is offline
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    I figure I should stop by and dump some more stuff, even though nothing is really finished yet. I may be starting Jade Regent soon, so I had to kick myself in the ass to get the early maps done rather than putting them off.

    So two days later, I've got these both about 80% done, just needing some tweaks here and there.

    First up is Walthus' shack in Brinestump Marsh, both the first and second floors. WIP.
    Ongoing project to map...everything.-walthus-1.jpg
    Ongoing project to map...everything.-walthus-2.jpg

    And second is Old Megus' shack, all moldy and rotting. WIP.
    Ongoing project to map...everything.-megus-progress.jpg

    Like my last few, I'm doing more and more to use real textures, just because I like the look, but I don't know how successful I'm being.

    Also, Jacktannery;
    I've had nothing but trouble trying to replicate the Polar Coordinates method of making straight textures fit a circle. This could be because the shape I intend to use is a thin wall, but also because I have no idea how to match a specific diameter of circle, while keeping the bricks roughly the same size as the rest of them in the image. I may end up just laying them in by hand.

  9. #29
    Guild Artisan Jacktannery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askren View Post
    Also, Jacktannery;
    I've had nothing but trouble trying to replicate the Polar Coordinates method of making straight textures fit a circle. This could be because the shape I intend to use is a thin wall, but also because I have no idea how to match a specific diameter of circle, while keeping the bricks roughly the same size as the rest of them in the image. I may end up just laying them in by hand.
    I just tried it again and it works - referring to my notes:
    This long line of wall is on a layer which is exactly the width of the image, and about four times as tall as the image, and the image is centred on the layer (changing these parameters makes a huge difference). I then select FILTER>DISTORT>POLAR COORDINATE and press OK without checking any of the settings and I get the circular bottom image
    .
    The important thing to note is:
    1) your base wall image must be long and thin. It will shrink when you turn it into a circle so its best to start with an oversized version.
    2) before you press filter, make sure your base wall layer is the full with of the canvas, and that the canvas AND layer is four-times taller than the wall.

  10. #30
      Askren is offline
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    No, I got all of that. It's the process of making the end product properly scaled compared to the rest of the bricks that's the problem. I don't know how wide I need my long, thin wall to be so the end product will be exactly the right size to fit in the circle I need it to. I don't know how thick to make it so it will be the proper thickness to match the wall. I don't know how much I need to squash the bricks down so when they get stretched, they'll be somewhat proportional after the filter.

    I'm sure there's math for it, but I don't know it, so the best I got is trial and error, and that didn't get me very close.

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