New to Digital Cartography? Software General Information

[icosahedron]

I think a lot depends on what you want from your mapping app.
Are you creating a map/floorplan or a bird's eye view/satellite image?
Do you need to know where things are relative to each other or do you want flickering shadows cast by every torch?

Personally, I'm happy with the simple approach. That may be because I haven't the skill to create anything complex, but I'm always wary of the temptation to get carried away with the technology.

20 years from now will 'cartography' be about total-immersion VR environments - just because your home computer can do it?

[Ascension]

Lord I hope so If I could do it now I would. Pixar computers on every desk and ILM in every home!!

[dormouse]

I think a lot depends on what you want from your mapping app.
Are you creating a map/floorplan or a bird's eye view/satellite image?
Do you need to know where things are relative to each other or do you want flickering shadows cast by every torch?

I think that's what I was trying to say when I came into this thread. The best app for you will be determined by the outcomes you want and how easily you can achieve them in each app.

[torstan]

Ah, if it's the players opening the door then I can entirely see why you'd want to specify those details. I was thinking the DM would do it, and they of course know how far the door can open.

I agree about things hinging properly. It's nice that they already do - as long as you make sure your door pngs have the hinge at the centre.

[ravells]

That would be cool. although I would never give up reading a good book made of paper.

[icosahedron]

Ok, I can tell when I'm in the minority - I'll shut up and go back to knapping my stone axe...

[torstan]

I know there is a user created patch that allows you to place VBL on tokens at the moment - but it hasn't been included in the main build and I'm sure it won't be until 1.4. This would allow VBL to be automatically laid down when you lay down a wall tile for example. Right now, you just have to lace it yourself, but as long as the tiles snap over the grid lines rather than along them, this should work really easily. It would also allow VBL to rotate as a door image rotated.

I'm not sure I see the value in knowing when a door is open or closed beyond the visual element? Right now, as RP says, you can rotate doors around a hinge. I would say that this is enough for DMs - surely they can see when a door has opened too far and make sure they don't rotate it into the wall and so avoid the need for more coding.

Here's an example door image:
PrisonDoor.png

Drop this in maptool on the object layer. Ctrl-Shift-middle mouse button to rotate the door. It should rotate around the hinge. Apart from having VBL track the rotation, I don't really see a need for much more sophistication here - especially not from a mapmaking point of view.

[dormouse]

I'm not sure I see the value in knowing when a door is open or closed beyond the visual element? Right now, as RP says, you can rotate doors around a hinge. I would say that this is enough for DMs - surely they can see when a door has opened too far and make sure they don't rotate it into the wall and so avoid the need for more coding.

Apart from having VBL track the rotation, I don't really see a need for much more sophistication here - especially not from a mapmaking point of view.

On this, and a number of aspects, I was looking at MT as a VTT rather than just a mapper.

There are two issues. One is the purely visual element. If you have gone to a lot of trouble designing a map, you do want it hinged (& rotating) correctly. And getting the visuals as right as possible does improve the atmospherics.

The second is around gameplay. How much of a room the players can see will depend on where they are standing and how far the door is opened (and where it is hinged) and that is what will happen with VBL working properly. There's no reason why they should not be the ones opening the door - but they won't know of any obstruction on the other side. Doing it like this means that there is no need for the DM (or players) to say anything about it - they just do and the doing is visible. Same principle when FoW is operating and they are returning past the door; do they remember exactly how open/closed they left it? No need for the DM to say anything (risking inadvertently drawing attention to something significant), no need for rolls.

[RPMiller]

Yea, GMs open doors. This is not a computer RPG it is a tool. Just like any tool, you have to use it the "right" way. Sure, I agree that it would be cool to allow players to open doors, but the reality is that it just simply isn't worth the time and energy to "fix" something that isn't really broken. GMs should always have the ultimate control over the game and that means the map as well. Visibility within the room is easily controlled by leaving the existing VBL in place, opening the door, drawing a new VBL line over the door and erasing the part that is "open". However, once VBL can be attached to symbols then that process will go away and will behave like you said, but the GM will still be opening the doors.

[dormouse]

Yea, GMs open doors.

...

I agree that it would be cool to allow players to open doors, but the reality is that it just simply isn't worth the time and energy to "fix" something that isn't really broken. GMs should always have the ultimate control over the game and that means the map as well.

Visibility within the room is easily controlled by leaving the existing VBL in place, opening the door, drawing a new VBL line over the door and erasing the part that is "open". However, once VBL can be attached to symbols then that process will go away and will behave like you said, but the GM will still be opening the doors.

This may be a current state of play in the MapTool view of the world - but I do want my players opening doors when it is they who are opening the doors. Just as I want them to act on objects when they are the ones acting on objects.

Not
Player saying "I'm going to open the door"
GM - "How far"?"
Player "1 foot, slowly"
GM opens door 1 foot.
Player "OK, I'll open it another foot"
GM opens door another foot.

You may like that level of 'control' as a GM, but I don't. When everything was done with words, that's the way it had to be. Doesn't really have to be like that now.

And I don't want to have to be drawing and erasing VBL lines just to open a door. That is something that can be automated as part of the door object. I want to be free to concentrate on the game too, not spending my time concentrating on working the technology.