A Question of Rights and Plagiarism

[ladiestorm]

It has been brought to my attention that there are a few people (members?) that have been trolling the guild, pulling maps created by guild members and posting them as free to download maps on their own Facebook pages. One individual in particular, is generally not asking g permission, not giving credit to the cartographers that created them, and not willing to post links to the artist's websites for the maps he takes.

When I read the rules before joining this site, I don't recall there being a clause that stated we automatically give anyone the rights to redistribute our maps without specific permission. I do not recall a clause that allowed anyone the right to redistribute our maps without giving proper credit to the artist that created the map.

I don't know if any of my maps have been pulled in this manner, but I felt the need to bring this out in the open, because I have some serious questions regarding this practice.

First and foremost question... By joining and posting maps (and other artwork) on the Cartographer's Guild, are we granting blanket permission for anyone to take our work and use it as they see fit, without due credit or acknowledgements? Or compensation for those who are NOT posting free use maps?

Second question... While I understand that posting in certain forums (challenges, cartographer's choice, etc) you are giving permission for the GUILD to repost them to certain specific websites(affiliated sites) as winners.... does this mean that we, as cartographers automatically give up our rights to these maps?

There are professional cartographers in this guild....mappers that take lakes commissions for their work. Some of those commissions come with a clause against redistribution...the ones commissioning the work want exclusive use rights. If someone is pulling maps without specific permission, what are the ramifications for those contracts?

Last questions... What are our responsibilities as cartographers to ensure this type of practice doesn't continue? What are the guild responsibilities?

Please understand, I am NOT trying to place blame on anyone but those who are stealing from this guild and it's members....and unless someone tells me otherwise...this IS stealing....a form of theft. Even the makers or free use maps have SOME rights and SOME say about HOW their work is redistributed, don't they?

I guess what I'm really looking for us a clarification on the rules as it pertains to this type of situation, and what we are supposed to do if rules are being broken. And possibly how to prevent this type of occurance, if it is, indeed, against the rules.

[Mouse]

In the UK, as far as I am aware, the copyright of any artistic work automatically belongs to the author. However, I wouldn't know a thing about the law in other countries, or internationally online.

Good on you for raising the point in a thread of its own, Ladiestorm. I'd rep you if I could

[Robbie]

This is a very serious issue...One that is not something that can be handled individually by the Guild itself because other sites are involved. As far as the Guild is concerned, all works posted to the site are the property of the author and proper use guidelines are to be granted by the author using some form of licensing method such as Creative Commons or other copyrighting legalities. The only assumed use rights that are granted by posting to the Cartographers' Guild is that WE may use your work to promote the Guild itself, but credit to the author will always be given in such a case.

With that in mind...the big question is what can be done. The rules for this are of course going to differ in each country, but ultimately it has to fall on the DMCA takedown procedures with the offending website. So if the offending user is posting the artwork without permission to Facebook, then you would have to go to Facebook with a DMCA complaint and Facebook should handle it accordingly.

The best I can do here is to prevent users from posting maps here that do not belong to them, and I would have to comply appropriately to remove copyrighted material by request also. Usually we try to handle those issues in house before getting DMCA involved. I would like to know in private if possible the name of the person posting these maps on Facebook. I can then take whatever means I can to remove them from THIS community and try and take steps to keep them from mining maps, but that's not guaranteed.

Ultimately you'd have to go to the site (or ISP/host of the site) that is hosting the offending users illegal posts and request removal and possibly damages.

Edit: DMCA is Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Look it up for procedures if you need to...but you may just be able to go directly to Facebook. Please PM me with links to the offenses if you can.

[J.Edward]

ladiestorm - can you post a link to where these maps are being posted on FB or wherever else?
I would appreciate that - be it here or in a PM.

Robbie is, of course, the last word on this subject, but I will venture to put out some info here.
First, the creator of the map always retains rights, unless they have been transferred to a client.
Even in such cases, the map maker is still allowed [unless otherwise agreed to in a contract] to post the maps to their portfolios or elsewhere for the sake of self promotion, though not seeking direct profit from that work. [All of this stuff is worked out in contract before work begins, in most cases.]

As such, the map maker can post their work here, or on DA, or elsewhere. Once it is there... it is out there, so to speak.
Someone can grab it from there as an image, or they can pin it to Pinterest, or share it on FB or Twitter.
You can attempt to track all of that and try to have it taken down - a difficult process sometimes.
It also occurs where people steal the work and try to claim it as their own. I have seen this on FB many times.

But, basically, once it's out on the internet, it's sort of in the wilderness.
There's not a lot of control, unless you have a team of lawyers working on your behalf.

That is the reason I nearly always put my sig and weblinks on my work so it can be tracked back to me WHEN that happens. Not if it happens. I t will happen.
Part of that is what a freelancer is trying to do - to be seen, to have their work seen, exposed.
There isn't a lot one can do, short of not showing work online, to stop this sort of thing.
It is often done by young people - for God only knows what reason.

I'm not sure if I've answered enough of your questions or not.
But, the Guild does not do this - we only post works to our own FB page and Twitter page.
If a person wants it removed from there, we will remove it upon request.
All work that members' post here is still their own - they are the copyright holder.
If you win an award - compass or CG Choice - we will obviously promote it, but we always include links back to the original work.
Let me know if you want more specificity. And I will ask Robbie to drop in here and comment as well.

EDIT - haha, Robbie ninja'd me.

[Mouse]

Robbie - bless you, who have little time to do things as it is!

I have the name, but no FB page to check it out personally. That's why I didn't use the name earlier. We have asked the person who brought it to our attention to send us the website address, at which point, if one of us can confirm that this breach of copyright is in fact the case, I trust that the address will find its way to your private inbox asap

EDIT: I think everyone's ninja-ing everyone else! ROFL!

[Robbie]

Yup, ninja'd...I want everyone to know that even though I haven't posted a lot or participated in things around here because I don't really have the time I'd like to map...I AM involved daily on this site. I log in throughout the day and see how things are going, and I'm logged in to the web server often as well to check the logs and make sure the server is stable. I'm back on the job now you could say.

[Mouse]

I found it, even though I had to register a new blank FB page for myself just for the purpose of seeing it.

Go here, and scroll down a bit. You will find the upper two floors of my Observatory being offered free, as if they are Carl Bartoli's work!!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1510397315867964/

This is where my artwork was placed as "FREE", no acknowledgements whatsoever: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1510397315867964/

Grrrr!

The only reason he hsn't still got my ground floor is because I changed the filename as a coincidence of marking it with a watermark earlier today.

I will be changing the other two shortly just to remove them from his site, but I will leave them there for the time being so you can see it for yourselves, any time in the next two hours.

[lorelei]

Thank you LadieStorm and Mouse. I've honestly had an issue with this this guys and his poaching for many months, which is why i have NOT posted many of my maps on this forum recently. It was just easier for me to keep my work to myself, my client, or at the "other" forum i post to get constructive feedback. Now, again, as i've said, i do not claim to be any sort of "artist" or "cartographer" for that matter, but someone likes my stuff enough to occassionally commission and pay me for my work, so i'd rather not have some troll on these boards poach my work. Although, in fairness, I have included a disclaimer on all my previous posts stating the maps are copyrighted, and permission is to be granted by me for use, of which he did ask, but when i requested he include my website, he did not post my most recent work, Lithera's Cabin.

[Mouse]

That's because he's doing this as if all the artwork he's stolen is his - that's the way it looks on the page - like its his, not yours or mine.

[Robbie]

Ok, so I just checked out the page, and I've messaged the owner. Turns out I don't believe he's poaching works at all. It's a map sharing group. I think the problem is definitely attribution...The guy doesn't appear to be taking credit for the work, but he's directly linking to attachments on the cartographers guild. The fact that he's not copying the images and is instead linking directly to the cartographers guild means he's not "stealing" the images.

I'm going to try and implement a no direct-link capability in the software...I've also messaged him and told him to stop doing it, and to start linking to the threads where the maps are posted and honoring the requests of the artists. If his response isn't favorable we can see where to go from there, but as there are actually numerous guild members as part of his group, I don't think the nature of this group is to poach and offer maps as other peoples work for free.

Anyways, I'm going to monitor this situation...I'll post back when he replies.