Where babies come from

[Ascension]

Just had an interesting thought, maybe, shrug. What if our hero found out that he is undead and wanted to quest to get a soul or if other people had to perform some sort of service to their god to get a soul. Also, what kind of soul would they get - a mortal one or an immortal one? Or maybe they could become like angels (they don't have souls).

[NeonKnight]

LAte to the party here, but here are some thoughts.

Is Pregnancy till the result of Sex? If two people both pray to the gods for a child, is the act of Sex still required?

Currently sex is by and large for most species (as near as I know) a pleasurable act (other than humans, Dolphins engage in sex without procreation, as does the Bonobo Monkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#...ocial_behavior)), and is made to be so to encourage reproduction.

So, that said, if pregnancy is only the result of the gods granting a wish,would their even be sex? Just a thought.

[Juggernaut1981]

Great ideas. In my scenario the people know that it is the act of sex combined with prayer that brings about conception, rather than being unaware of the connection. I don't want to go down a puritist road. So I was thinking that this was a society where there was no shame in sex( but not orgiastic and debauched.)

But how about the psychological impact that every citizen knows that they were wanted by their parents and granted life by their god?

Psychology 101: If there's no shame, there's no taboo, there's no reason NOT to do it (in the present)... so "Go. For. Gold"


I'd be getting the feeling that there would be a massive religious impact to childbirth. Those without Children have angered/are out of favour/are unholy in the eyes of the God/s. There could be a couple of 'industries' such as: Pray Me a Baby Mr Priest, Can I Buy A Baby from God X By Donations?, I'm Holy but my Wife/Husband Isn't... Can you give me one Holy Person?, etc.

The Psychology of "belonging" and "wantedness" and "inside the group-ness" basically requires CONSTANT and FREQUENT top-ups. If you want someone to feel a sense of belonging or being wanted, then they need to be shown examples of that regularly. "God X's Priest said Mummy and Daddy love me very much and so does God X cause s/he/it made me" doesn't work for very long before people grow skeptical about the "bad things in life". (Just go check out those nice disillusioned Catholics/Christians out there... and those from other mono-theistic religions)

[Greason Wolfe]

Just another thought here . . .

Is it the couple from which the proper prayers are required, or must the prayers be conducted by a priest/priestess? If it is the couple that has to pray, what if one is found worthy while the other isn't? If, on the other hand, it is a priest/priestess that must conduct the prayers, does the gender of the priest/priestess play a role in the gender of the child, and, for that matter, does the couple have to do the deed in a holy place or be witnessed by the priest/priestess? All of this could have some rather interesting effects on the society as well. Another effect the "prayer" approach might have would be designed marriages (as has often been the case in the real world) both for political and religious power.

GW

[LonewandererD]

I think they did a book with a very similiar practice like this, the characters could not bear children the normal way, sex of a religious thing and only those proven to be faithful to the gods were deemed fit to raise a child, the conflict in the sotry occured when some of the characters began to question this and tried to do things without the guidance of the gods and bear naturally.

I know I doesn't add much to the conversation but once I remember the name of this series of books who may want to read it as it seems very similiar to the discussion going on here.

-D-

[wisemoon]

Interesting discussion!

Not sure if this is the series that LonewandererD was referring to, but there is a series that has this kind of cultural idea in it. The "Kushiel's Dart" series, and its follow up series "Kushiel's Legacy", is about a culture where a couple must "light a candle to Eisheth" in order to bear children.

The books are based on an alternate history, with some minor elements of magic included. The books start out in what we call France...but the people in this country are descended from angels. The cosmology is based on a couple of things...that the blood of Yeshua/Jesus and Mary Magdalene sunk into the Earth (Gaia) and that Gaia created a new being from that blood--Elua. There are several myths about Elua gradually revealed in the series, which I won't go into, but basically some of God's angels become aware of Elua and decide to abandon Heaven and follow him. Elua's basic precept is "Love who you will", that love of any kind is sacred.

Eisheth is one of the angels who followed Elua. I can't recall why pregnancy was her domain, but essentially all "D'Angelines" could not get pregnant until they had petitioned Eisheth to "open the gates of their womb".

Given Elua's precept, sex as an expression of love was very common in D'Angeline society. Of course, as they encountered other cultures, this caused an enormous amount of conflict. Also, even though sex and love were valued, it didn't reduce the conflict in the society overall. There were still plenty of other vices, plenty of intrigue, plenty of people maneuvering for power, etc. The books are fascinating, particularly since Christianity as we know it does not exist! The speculation by the author of how Medieval/Rennaissance Europe and surrounding countries would look if the Jews had actually embraced Jesus is pretty inventive. In these books, most European countries are still "pagan" and worship their native gods/goddesses.

As to the question of STDs, that is avoided by D'Anglines mostly because in addition to their possession of angelic blood and automatic contraception, one of the other angels' domains is medical knowledge, yet another's is engineering/scientific knowledge, etc. The D'Angelines are probably the most advanced culture in the world of this book. Again, it doesn't make them perfect--they are still quite flawed. It gives them advantages, but that sets them up on the world stage to be envied, resented, feared, mocked, etc.

I highly recommend the books to anyone, though I must warn you that the culture's attitudes toward sex/love in all its forms and permutations means that many of the characters engage in things that some people would find offensive or morally wrong. Just as a caveat. Nothing is really that graphically described...not any more than a steamy romance novel, anyway. But some people have found it to be hard to stomach, depending on their personal beliefs regarding sex.