Who plays Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition in here?

[Gamerprinter]

Sorry, Tilt, I don't mean to do Edition war, just being cute -no offense. You know I have respect for that game (4e). I wouldn't have participated in this thread, just responding to Juggie's input. We are all friendly here, in general - so don't take it too seriously.

Also consider though the majority of members are also RPGers, many are not, some are just fantasy authors, some are Cartography hobbyists. I really don't think the CG is an ideal place to discuss RPGs and editions - its best to remain system neutral, unless you're specifically discussing maps for a given game. As a general RPG site, I don't think that's what the Guild is all about.

Too bad though, everywhere else its still a big flame war - even two years later, so its not even worthy discussing except at a 4e pro site, like Wizards or RPGNet. I found that its difficult to respond to a question about 3e/OGL/Pathfinder on RPGNet, I have to tread softly in any such discussion.

GP

PS: also, nothing against the game, but I have an ongoing simmer of disgust over the GSL, DDi, and WotC tactics, especially in doing lip service to 3pp's and not truly supporting them. I know they don't have to, as its their IP, but since the OGL was so great, leaving that license to something more restrictive leaves a bad taste for me. I have nothing against the game system, its the owners that bother me and I can't see a thread about 4e without having that jump out of the back of my mind. Again, I apologize if you feel disconcerted - I have all the respect in the world for you, though.

PPS: also regarding Pathfinder, to me its D&D, yes I know not owned by WotC, so its the other guy. But when comparing editions, I think it has to be included, as its more like the D&D I know, than 4e, which to me is barely D&D.

[tilt]

No need to apologize, I didn't think you was trying to do that - I was just trying to end the 4e god/bad discussion there - and I do believe the posts were entertaining, but off topic
and I'm also amazed at the flamewars going on and on... get over it! *lol* ... its not like there is no books to play 3.5 with if you don't like 4e ... and if 3.5'ers want more - they should look at pathfinder which is (I believe) still evolving
I haven't read the GSL but if its very restrictive I understand your sentiment - especially with all the good intentions in the OGL. The only thing bothering me is that the online part of 4e (that was announced 2 years ago) haven't shown up ... that being said, the character generator rocks and so does the monster generator - both cool applications, but I would like a cool online gaming system as well

And back to mapping - the only maps where I actually think of gamesystem are battle maps - cause that's the only place where you can cater a bit to your audience.. .but then again - I'm mostly about just making cool maps and I'm not adding stuff just to make it more 4e - people can take it or leave it

[Gamerprinter]

My problem with the DDi is not in the tools themselves, but Goodman Games and several other 3pp have made support material for 4e, yet WotC won't allow that material into the DDi to share with the 4e community - its not Core, its not WotC, so it can't go into the system. And since the DDi is such a well used resource by that audience, and many 4e gamers don't frequent EnWorld and the other sites, when they go online they use the DDi and not a moment consider 3pp offers to expand their game. This policy makes losers out of all 3pp's wanting to support the system - which is just exclusionism (if that's a word). I think its bad policy. If those customers would only look beyond the DDi they would see how much the small publisher wants to help them out, but they won't even see it. That's my case against the DDi, otherwise its a good idea.

And for the sake of your thread - end threadjack!

GP

[Juggernaut1981]

@Tilt: Sorry for sparking the flames... BUT *THROWS MANY PEANUTS AT TILT* Can't help myself.
@OldGuy: Yeah probably true, we're a fairly moderate almost "lasse faire by experience" kind of mob it seems.

Tilt (or anyone else), if you'd like to know my opinions on 4E, feel free to PM me. I try to keep that sort of thing out of the public arena.

[tilt]

@GP ... I see what you mean, and wasn't aware of that - and agree that that is too bad, I'm all for the small publishers, published some magazines myself and had to fight to get any money out of advertisers to keep us running, they were much more inclined to go with "the big mags" - not fun)

@J
*lol* noooo not peanuts... I'm allergic (just kidding - love'em) ... I think I know your opinion allready Juggs

[whtknt]

I think that the fact that we can discuss it civilly is a sign that it should, in fact, be discussed. But as this is a mapping forum...

When my group transitioned to 4E, with the focus on tactics, we began looking at VTTs. MapTool is the one that we have settled on, and forums such as the Cartographer's Guild have been a tremendous aid. Even as far back as 3E, I was a fan of Ed Bourelle's e-Adventure Tiles system (and have several of them), and it makes me glad to see that finally some companies are recognizing that a digital gaming community exists (Rite Publishing, for example).

One major irritation is Paizo refusing to offer their Gamemastery Map Packs as PDFs. They have explained themselves, and the explanation makes sense (cost versus saleability), but that doesn't do much for those of us who would purchase them if they were available.

[Greason Wolfe]

Well, I suppose I'll chime in here, and, to be perfectly honest, I haven't played DnD since around the time 3E came out. It was around that time that I was introduced to Hero Systems, and I've pretty much stuck to that ever since. I honestly can't say anything bad about DnD in terms of the editions I played under, but when WoTC took over the reigns, I knew I was pretty much done with the system. Of course, I don't do much table top RPing at all anymore due to my work schedule (and the fact that I don't have a group to play with). My personal belief in all of this, though, is that if you're happy with the system you play under, then it's all good.

GW

[tilt]

Hi GW, long time no hear.. ... and yes, down to basics its just about enjoying the game... reminds me of missing Villains and Vigilantes - that was a great game - totally unbalanced - but cool none the less. Especially the rules for flying through the air, and walls when hit hard

[Gamerprinter]

I think that the fact that we can discuss it civilly is a sign that it should, in fact, be discussed. But as this is a mapping forum...

When my group transitioned to 4E, with the focus on tactics, we began looking at VTTs. MapTool is the one that we have settled on, and forums such as the Cartographer's Guild have been a tremendous aid. Even as far back as 3E, I was a fan of Ed Bourelle's e-Adventure Tiles system (and have several of them), and it makes me glad to see that finally some companies are recognizing that a digital gaming community exists (Rite Publishing, for example).

One major irritation is Paizo refusing to offer their Gamemastery Map Packs as PDFs. They have explained themselves, and the explanation makes sense (cost versus saleability), but that doesn't do much for those of us who would purchase them if they were available.

I am currently working on a website where I plan to offer two free maps per week, that correspond to a map tile product of mine called Endless Terrain Battlemaps - I think is a great improvement over Game Mastery Maps. The free maps are PDFs, but the map tiles are printed and laminated hard products. I am struggling with the site, but should get it up before too long.

GP

[tilt]

Please feel free to ask advice and etc concerning webdesign and site structure if you need help or another set of eyes... been doing that since mid ninetees