Old boys... well fairly but there are many older than I. I think I might try Truespace then. I am more into the modeling side than the rendering or animation side. If you have LW and TS and prefer TS then it must be quite good cos I would say that its one of LW's strengths. Maybe its just that I am very used to the way it does it tho. My old version which is ohh 5 or something like that is so old tho. It has a couple of bugs in it when doing certain operations but if you know where they are and how to get around them then its not so bad. Otherwise its pretty rock and it never crashes so I am pretty cool with it. Mine, being old, has a 64K point limit tho which is very bad for terrain. And its single threaded and 32bit which means I can run 4 renders at once at full speed but its slow to render generally. Blender is lightning in comparison but not realtime. The LW preview is realtime GL but not a very compelling lighting model. Blender has been a double edged sword for a free 3D app. Its very good and capable tho ultra quirky. But being so well developed, noone wants to start again and dev a new one not so quirky at least until sketchup came along and thats not quite in the same space as a normal 3D app.