Oil spill

[Diamond]

And redrobes has probably hit the key issue: cars are one of the most important symbols of status and as long that doesn't change it will be difficult to get away from oil.

For me (and I suspect a lot of other Americans), it's not even about status. It's about being able to get from Point A to Point B in a timely manner. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, which has one of the best public transit systems in the US, but even so it's still a nightmare if need to get from, say, my home in San Mateo to a business appointment in Oakland. I'd have to get on a bus to the BART station (about 25 minutes), then take BART across the Bay to Oakland (another 20 minutes or so), then get on another bus (or two or three, with transfers) - another 30 minutes easily. So anywhere from an hour and a half up to possibly two or two and a half hours to travel twenty miles.

Or I could just hop in my car, drive across the bridge, and be at my appointment in half an hour to forty-five minutes, even in rush hour traffic.

I'd gladly get rid of my car in a heartbeat if there was fast, convenient, and inexpensive nation-wide public transit. Speaking of cost, that little ride I just described above? That'd cost about $16 for a round-trip, compared to burning about 2 gallons of gas = $6 (figure 20 miles to a gallon, so two gallons).

[whtknt]

At risk of going completely south of the topic (map-related), as someone who lives on the Gulf Coast, who works in the marine science industry, and who is watching these events unfold with growing concern, I can understand and agree with Jax's fears. This is bigger than anyone thinks, and much bigger than BP and our government want you to believe and they themselves believe. This will not be going away anytime in the near future, and even the relief wells may not be completely (or even partially successful). In fact, there exists a (truthfully, slim) possibility that things will worsen.

We need alternatives to fossil fuels, and they have to be cheap enough and plentiful enough (or renewable) that they are affordable. And yet, no matter which route you go, there are obstacles.

[jfrazierjr]

For me (and I suspect a lot of other Americans), it's not even about status. It's about being able to get from Point A to Point B in a timely manner. I live in the San Francisco Bay area, which has one of the best public transit systems in the US, but even so it's still a nightmare if need to get from, say, my home in San Mateo to a business appointment in Oakland. I'd have to get on a bus to the BART station (about 25 minutes), then take BART across the Bay to Oakland (another 20 minutes or so), then get on another bus (or two or three, with transfers) - another 30 minutes easily. So anywhere from an hour and a half up to possibly two or two and a half hours to travel twenty miles.

Or I could just hop in my car, drive across the bridge, and be at my appointment in half an hour to forty-five minutes, even in rush hour traffic.

I'd gladly get rid of my car in a heartbeat if there was fast, convenient, and inexpensive nation-wide public transit. Speaking of cost, that little ride I just described above? That'd cost about $16 for a round-trip, compared to burning about 2 gallons of gas = $6 (figure 20 miles to a gallon, so two gallons).

And you pretty much nailed the reasons I dislike public transit:

• loads of extra time involved in most cases(in the US anyway)
• cost(unless you use transit a lot AND they have an unlimited montly pass paid for up front)
• Just plain PITA with transfers
• ease of use....Just how much of a PITA would it be to bring home 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood on a bus/train compared to your own minivan/truck/SUV

For the first issue, some of that might be solvable for "some" people by having access to a laptop and high speed internet along the entire route(ie, those who commute to work and work in some type of business where they utilize PC's often for their job.) Of course, I expect that this still precludes most people who have to travel in transit systems who cannot utilize technology due to the constraint's of their job type.


When my car was broken for several months, I used public transit and as noted, spent almost 2 hours(one transfer 1 hour 50 minutes avg time per trip) to make a 25 minute trip via car. While I did have a laptop, my job at the time would have required a high speed internet connection in order to allow me to do my work, and what just not available to me, so that was 1.5 hours (each way) wasted every day.

[tilt]

and public transit problems are not only in the US - I'm guessing most of the world has the same. In Denmark/Sweden they are expensive, they take long - they are crowded. Where we live it would take us min. 2 hours to get to work with public transit or 1 hour with the car. With 2 small kids, 4 hours transit a day is just not doable, so we use the cars. Sometimes I work at home though and thus save some money. Here the petrol is expensive to unfortunatly 1 liter is at the moment about 10,50 DKK almost $2, 3,8 liter to the gallon so thats about $7 a gallon. Cars are expensive to in Denmark (but not Sweden - yeah!) but people buy them anyway cause a lot can't do without them and hold a job.
That being said Denmark and Sweden has taken great steps to try to get as much power as possible from wind and water (and the little sun we get) and we have a high percentage of energy from that - still far from 100% though, but working in the right direction... which leads us back to super conductors so we can store that energy

[cfds]

Perhaps I overstated the point 'status symbol'. Public transport is a problem everywhere mainly because it cannot be run with profit. In Germany the railroad company tries to compete against planes on long distances and tries to get rid of the regional lines with the obvious results.
But I still think the world would be helped if people would not use a SUV or another 500 hp car to get to work. If you don't have to haul bulky material a small car with 50 hp usually works as well but demanding to use a 'small' car amounts to castration, at least in Germany...

[Redrobes]

I would be quite happy to ride a bike on a cycle track to work because if you hit another bike then its gonna hurt but its unlikely to be serious. If, however, I take a moped, smart car, or mini and go to work on the roads (especially motorways, interstate etc) then its full of articulated lorries.

I would also be quite happy to have a touring type car or pickup and a smart car / mini and choose the one most suitable for the journey. Pop around to the local shops in the mini, Prius etc but at least in the UK you have to have car insurance per car instead of getting a single set of cover for the most valuable one which includes all your other cars - since you can only drive one at a time.

Since you need a car to cover your most common and most demanding type of transport then you have to have that touring car or pickup / van if your in a trade and use it when shopping. This is a government or social issue not an engineering one. We could create a car which has a variable amount of engine size - perhaps like a train where there is a carriage which can be attached which is powered so that you have a front section like a mini and an extra back section when needed. But its all a non starter because of the legislation.

I would still say that most of the issues surrounding lower fuel consumption are all about the legal framework in which you are allowed to design a car for the road. Not sure what its like in other countries but for the UK, the governments solutions to tackling these issues has been the usual tax hike for bigger cars, there, job done.

[Jaxilon]

Well they are coming up with some better looking alternate fuel cars. Check this Electric Raceabout pushing 60 mph in less than five seconds on its way to a top speed of 125 mph and at least they are getting around to looking better.

Oh, and btw, there are some really cool architectural ideas and abandoned locations around the world that are worth checking out on that site.

[tilt]

http://www.labconfidential.dk/wp-con...0118_karma.jpg Danish Hybrid car ... but then we're back to a limited source of lithium... *sigh*... its a loose - loose situation ... gotta invent some more stuff
btw - there is a company (in germany?) that has designed a "automatic-car-battery-changing-station", where you drive in and machines changes the battery while your in the car

[Jaxilon]

I don't know, there are lots of ideas out there but I think the bottom line is that people are just not going to give up what they want until maybe when they see themselves and their loved ones gasping for breath. Clearly something should have been done decades ago.

[Wannabehero]

While I don't disagree with the fact that greed and ineptness is a part of the problem, I would ask what what ideas are better than oil? I honestly want to know, not because I want to start a disagreement.

One idea that has merit, but requires further development, is algae of all things.

Just for clarification, Algal fuels are a category of biofuels that are derived from algae (yay pond scum!). They have advantages in that they don't compete with food crops for land-mass or with human populations for water sources, algae fuels are a net-zero CO2 factor, and algal farms have the potential to be incredibly space-dense (don't take up much area) and far more efficient than traditional foodstock sources (such as soy, corn, or sugarcane). And just for some extra icing on the cake, the bi-products of algal farming are supremely suited as plant fertilizer and animal feedstock.

The real issues faced by this technology (and pretty much every green power technology) is infrastructure and technology readiness, which equate to big expenses that only recently have people begun to consider worthwhile.