Phonotactics Question/Help

[zaffu]

So anything in parentheses is optional, while out of parentheses its obligated?

That's the way I understand it.

Is there a way to build a syllable structure after you already made words?

I don't see why not. That's what they're doing when they describe real life languages that way---looking at the words and trying to figure out what rules they all follow.

Someone told me you don't really need a structure if you can sub-consciously make the words "sound" similar/consistent. Is this true?

Well...if your language is really strict about what syllable structures it allows (like Japanese, say) then the C's and V's notation would be simple and useful. If it's more like English---wikipedia gives (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C)(C)(C) for English. Obviously not everything that fits that syllable structure is a legal English word. So if you're trying to invent nonsense words that look like legal English, (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C)(C)(C) doesn't help you much. Even if you wrote it (s)(C)(l,r)V...er, I don't even know what string of five consonants you can put after the vowel. But even then you can come up with sequences that aren't legal English...like "stla..." or "sgla..."

So...the point I'm trying to make is that unless your language has a really simple syllable structure, you might be better off just letting your subconscious handle it.

SOV:

I tried looking online for SOV languages and example sentences, but I only got Wiki which doesn't mention anything about it. I looked at Lakhota, a Sioux Native American language which is SOV, but I can't find anything on the web.

Here's SOV languages on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject...t%E2%80%93verb

Latin might be the easiest to find information on. Though this paragraph might be the info you were looking for in the first place:

SOV languages have a strong tendency to use postpositions rather than prepositions, to place auxiliary verbs after the action verb, to place genitive noun phrases before the possessed noun, to place a name before a title or honorific ("James Uncle" and "Johnson Doctor" rather than "Uncle James" and "Doctor Johnson"), and to have subordinators appear at the end of subordinate clauses. They have a weaker but significant tendency to place demonstrative adjectives before the nouns they modify. Relative clauses preceding the nouns to which they refer usually signals SOV word order, though the reverse does not hold: SOV languages feature prenominal and postnominal relative clauses roughly equally. SOV languages also seem to exhibit a tendency towards using a time–manner–place ordering of adpositional phrases.

[Alex]

That's the way I understand it.

I don't see why not. That's what they're doing when they describe real life languages that way---looking at the words and trying to figure out what rules they all follow.

Okay, I wanna see if I fully understand this. Please bare with me.
So if my SS started like (C) (V) (etc etc), I could pick whether a word could start with a consonant or a vowel and it would be legal?

Ah, then that makes it easier I think. Now I just need to learn more about it xD

Well...if your language is really strict about what syllable structures it allows (like Japanese, say) then the C's and V's notation would be simple and useful. If it's more like English---wikipedia gives (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C)(C)(C) for English. Obviously not everything that fits that syllable structure is a legal English word. So if you're trying to invent nonsense words that look like legal English, (C)(C)(C)V(C)(C)(C)(C)(C) doesn't help you much. Even if you wrote it (s)(C)(l,r)V...er, I don't even know what string of five consonants you can put after the vowel. But even then you can come up with sequences that aren't legal English...like "stla..." or "sgla..."

So...the point I'm trying to make is that unless your language has a really simple syllable structure, you might be better off just letting your subconscious handle it.

Hmm...how would I know if my structure is simple if I haven't made one yet, though?

SOV:

Here's SOV languages on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject...t%E2%80%93verb

Latin might be the easiest to find information on. Though this paragraph might be the info you were looking for in the first place:

Ah, yes, I have read that part. But it doesn't direct where to put articles and such. My language has articles, but I haven't found a site or resource that directs where the rest of the components of words, like articles, should be within the SOV order, so there are some things the article never mentions. If that makes sense...?

[zaffu]

So if my SS started like (C) (V) (etc etc), I could pick whether a word could start with a consonant or a vowel and it would be legal?

So long as that first C is in parenthesis, yes.

Hmm...how would I know if my structure is simple if I haven't made one yet, though?

Well...unless you're trying to use a computer to generate a word list, I don't think you need to have syllable structure pinned down perfectly before you start. If you change your mind later and decide some word doesn't fit in with all the others, you can revise it.

But by "simple" I'm thinking of syllable structures like (C)V or (C)V(n). Languages that really limit the consonant clusters they allow, or don't allow consonant clusters period.

Ah, yes, I have read that part. But it doesn't direct where to put articles and such. My language has articles, but I haven't found a site or resource that directs where the rest of the components of words, like articles, should be within the SOV order, so there are some things the article never mentions. If that makes sense...?

Heck, there might not even be any universal rule.