4e Core Rulebooks

[loogie]

well thats just it, opinions, i got no beef with people who like dnd, and if its done right it is good... i'm just sayin in my experiences, i've had trouble playing anything but the role specified by a class.

(i like clerics too, and mages, but my thoughts on magic are very minimalistic to dnd standards)

i think in most cases the main issue i've had with dnd is the GM's... the people i played 3rd ed with knew the rules inside and out, but that was part of the problem. they wouldn't bend the rules for specific purposes...

(one of my character ideas was to have a wizard that casts spells through runes, not waggling his fingers and saying words... i just wanted a different method of spellcasting, but to do so, i had to start out as a regular wizard and then get some prof eventually to allow me to cast runes, and even then, every rune i made made me lose xp... so my DM convinced me otherwise... but to me, thats not how rping should work. i mean sure, a character should be limited by the world, but i don't think a character should be limited by a systems rules...)

in the system i currently use i'm in the process of replacing the current spell system with my idea, and its covered in the rules to allow me to create these changes.

i've played with a few great DM's and I know all to well to create a great session its more them then the system... but the system helps people like me make sense of my ideas and tie them into the world without accidentally making them to weak or powerful.

and even for you DNDers, Iron Crown Enterprises has some amazing resources for RPing regaurdless of system... i HIGHLY recommend the GM Law for new and old DM's alike (Gamemaster is ICE's Dungeonmaster)... half of the book is system inspecific and just gives hints and suggestions on how to run a great game... i've been GMing for years, and i still read in now and again, to help my players have fun in my games.

[Midgardsormr]

and even for you DNDers, Iron Crown Enterprises has some amazing resources for RPing regaurdless of system...

Agreed. There was a book about building castles and fortresses that had loads of great information, down to the niggly details of how many square feet per diner should be available in the great hall. I'd provide the actual title, but it's packed away in my storage unit at the moment.

I enjoy the occasional D&D session, but people come into the game with so many preconceived notions that I generally avoid it, too.

[loogie]

Agreed. There was a book about building castles and fortresses that had loads of great information, down to the niggly details of how many square feet per diner should be available in the great hall. I'd provide the actual title, but it's packed away in my storage unit at the moment.

I enjoy the occasional D&D session, but people come into the game with so many preconceived notions that I generally avoid it, too.

its Castles and Ruins

i in fact have it as well... got it as a pdf... its just a scan of the old book but, you can find it at ICE's store. Its the amount of detail they put into their sourcebooks that makes me love them...

And as far as healing surges and such... i'm much more hardcore then dnd i guess... i KNOW not a lot of people are like i am when it comes to playing, so surges is a good idea... but for me, the much more terrifying possibility of you OR your opponent getting a simple lucky hit that crushes your pelvis, severs an artery, or just plain lops off a limb is where i like to be... HARP's attacks have several effects like - to actions, stunned, bleeding per round, broken bones, severed limbs etc... while i do edit my monsters attack results so that i don't kill or maim my players all the time, i often let broken bones, and such slip by... and without instant cure-all magical fixes, it makes people go into combat with a little hesitation, and a lot of planning... (i like tactics)... basically, i made any magical healing an out of combat option... usually by changing its cast time...

4th ed sounds interesting, and i'm sure i'll end up trying it some time... tho i've heard plenty of people talking about it... and they've been busy crunching numbers so that when their DM switches, they'll have the best possible character they can have... i'm sure it won't take long to find some loopholes to create the munchkin characters. its just how some people play... and in my experience, those players are almost always playing dnd... guess being the biggest and most popular rp system is a benefit and curse.

[torstan]

I had a go at MERP and was put off ICE products by the sheer mind-bending complexity of the system - but then we were only 14 at the time and D&D just fit better. Sounds like it might be worth revisiting some of their stuff from what you say.

I like the new wizards. We played a short test combat when we first picked up the books and one of my old players was whinging about how wizards looked vastly under-powered. At the end of the combat he said that was the first time he'd played a wizard that actually felt like a wizard in any game. That's the recommendation I have heard for trying the game anywhere.

As for the DMing side, it's definitely faster to build up adventures and monsters are a lot easier to run. I'm not enamoured by the skill-challenges though. They're a bit too simplistic at the moment - maybe they'll become a little more complex when I get my head designing them better.

[NeonKnight]

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

[industrygothica]

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

The book has the Ranger listed as a striker, for what it's worth. Though I do agree with you.

I think I'm going to like this new system (I've got the hardcovers on pre-order already, so I don't feel guilty for snagging the PDF's). The wizard took me forever to figure out, simply because I went into it looking for spell lists and per day charts, and didn't find any. When it finally clicked I was amazed at the simplicity and effectiveness. From the little I've seen, I do think that there needs to be more spell options, however; it looks like wizards may start getting a bit cookie-cutter after a while, imo.

Attacks vs. Saves are an interesting concept as well--one that I think will work well once you're used to it. There are so many different attack options for each class though, I'm afraid it may get a bit confusing at first just deciding on which to use.

In any case, I'm looking forward to playing and, more importantly, creating with the new rules. It promises to be an adventure!


-IG

[Badger]

What??? no Munchkin "role" .... What a JIP!!!

[MadLetter]

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

It would surely fit into the "Artillery" description
I only wanted to be a smart-ass I'm following every little information piece we got since about eight months ago... *laughs*

As for Wizard being a bit "shoe-horned" into Evoker, I might want to add that there will be more "wizard" classes out within a year: Illusionist and Necromancer have been said to get a complete class. Enchanter might get eaten by Psi, though.

[Badger]

besides munchkin as a role... don't forget "Complainer" "Rulehound" "Playerspouse" and the "Debater" ....

[Arkkeeper]

Still I have to say nothing will ever be as good as 2nd edition AD&D. After TSR everything went Downhill.