4e Core Rulebooks

[MadLetter]

I like it. It looks a lot cleaner, and looks a lot smoother to play. As an example, Wizards (my favorite character), has everything needed to play a Wizard PC in the Wizard section of the Player's Book.

Most wizard players moan and cry all the time now, because they can no longer insta-gib any encounter. I like the new wizard!

The game also now allows for PCs to play towards a goal (example being Demigodhood at level 31). This does not mean at level 31 you now are a god and continue to play. Nope, quite the contrary. Your character achieves your ultimate goal, and is then retired from play.

Only a nitpick here, it's level 30 and stop (no real L31, I think). I created about six or seven Epic Destinies on my own already!

Classes are better balanced against each other, and each class has a couple of different roles assigned to the them. Example: A character is either a Controller, Artillery, Soldier etc. This means (again the wizard), is best as either a controller or Artillery. A controller means that have abilities to control the battlefield and opponents, throwing up Flaming walls, moving your opponents, holding opponents in place etc. Or they could be artillery, throwing massive damage around etc.

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

There are lost more I can say about the game, but all I can say, is I am going to be a very very giddy little boy come Friday when I plunk down my big bucks (I still have no idea what the cost will be to me, but I suspect something like $100) and get my in the 'flesh' (so to speak) books for real.
So much love!

Amazon sells them for 55$ by now


A few notes from my side (over 14 years of D&D already under my belt, just so you know I'm not new ;] )

The game runs smoother (played four sessions already with D&D XP rules and characters) and somewhat better, I believe. It's way more balanced and makes way more fun. The power you get mean fun and you get a load of excellenct descriptions if your players are inclined to it (mine are, happy times!).

The whole mechanics are way better I think!

All in all I just want to add: superb ruleset!


Regarding loogies post:
The Number-Crunching is far less probelamatic than in 3.5, I think. As everything is more streamlined, you can get straight to the action of an encounter, be it social, combat or a skill-challenge.

Less "what spells do I pick today", which can result in down-time en masse whilst a player picks his spells, and more time to play and describe whats going on.

On a sidenote: I play Shadowrun, Exalted and WoD myself, so I'm not stuck in D&D Nonetheless it's one of the best Fantasy Games, I believe... if it's too bland: make your own world and bring colour into it. I'm doing that right now!


A last sidenote... for those who are interested in homebrewing stuff for 4th Edition, I add the link to a tool I am working on with a pal of mine: LINK

[loogie]

well thats just it, opinions, i got no beef with people who like dnd, and if its done right it is good... i'm just sayin in my experiences, i've had trouble playing anything but the role specified by a class.

(i like clerics too, and mages, but my thoughts on magic are very minimalistic to dnd standards)

i think in most cases the main issue i've had with dnd is the GM's... the people i played 3rd ed with knew the rules inside and out, but that was part of the problem. they wouldn't bend the rules for specific purposes...

(one of my character ideas was to have a wizard that casts spells through runes, not waggling his fingers and saying words... i just wanted a different method of spellcasting, but to do so, i had to start out as a regular wizard and then get some prof eventually to allow me to cast runes, and even then, every rune i made made me lose xp... so my DM convinced me otherwise... but to me, thats not how rping should work. i mean sure, a character should be limited by the world, but i don't think a character should be limited by a systems rules...)

in the system i currently use i'm in the process of replacing the current spell system with my idea, and its covered in the rules to allow me to create these changes.

i've played with a few great DM's and I know all to well to create a great session its more them then the system... but the system helps people like me make sense of my ideas and tie them into the world without accidentally making them to weak or powerful.

and even for you DNDers, Iron Crown Enterprises has some amazing resources for RPing regaurdless of system... i HIGHLY recommend the GM Law for new and old DM's alike (Gamemaster is ICE's Dungeonmaster)... half of the book is system inspecific and just gives hints and suggestions on how to run a great game... i've been GMing for years, and i still read in now and again, to help my players have fun in my games.

[Midgardsormr]

and even for you DNDers, Iron Crown Enterprises has some amazing resources for RPing regaurdless of system...

Agreed. There was a book about building castles and fortresses that had loads of great information, down to the niggly details of how many square feet per diner should be available in the great hall. I'd provide the actual title, but it's packed away in my storage unit at the moment.

I enjoy the occasional D&D session, but people come into the game with so many preconceived notions that I generally avoid it, too.

[loogie]

Agreed. There was a book about building castles and fortresses that had loads of great information, down to the niggly details of how many square feet per diner should be available in the great hall. I'd provide the actual title, but it's packed away in my storage unit at the moment.

I enjoy the occasional D&D session, but people come into the game with so many preconceived notions that I generally avoid it, too.

its Castles and Ruins

i in fact have it as well... got it as a pdf... its just a scan of the old book but, you can find it at ICE's store. Its the amount of detail they put into their sourcebooks that makes me love them...

And as far as healing surges and such... i'm much more hardcore then dnd i guess... i KNOW not a lot of people are like i am when it comes to playing, so surges is a good idea... but for me, the much more terrifying possibility of you OR your opponent getting a simple lucky hit that crushes your pelvis, severs an artery, or just plain lops off a limb is where i like to be... HARP's attacks have several effects like - to actions, stunned, bleeding per round, broken bones, severed limbs etc... while i do edit my monsters attack results so that i don't kill or maim my players all the time, i often let broken bones, and such slip by... and without instant cure-all magical fixes, it makes people go into combat with a little hesitation, and a lot of planning... (i like tactics)... basically, i made any magical healing an out of combat option... usually by changing its cast time...

4th ed sounds interesting, and i'm sure i'll end up trying it some time... tho i've heard plenty of people talking about it... and they've been busy crunching numbers so that when their DM switches, they'll have the best possible character they can have... i'm sure it won't take long to find some loopholes to create the munchkin characters. its just how some people play... and in my experience, those players are almost always playing dnd... guess being the biggest and most popular rp system is a benefit and curse.

[torstan]

I had a go at MERP and was put off ICE products by the sheer mind-bending complexity of the system - but then we were only 14 at the time and D&D just fit better. Sounds like it might be worth revisiting some of their stuff from what you say.

I like the new wizards. We played a short test combat when we first picked up the books and one of my old players was whinging about how wizards looked vastly under-powered. At the end of the combat he said that was the first time he'd played a wizard that actually felt like a wizard in any game. That's the recommendation I have heard for trying the game anywhere.

As for the DMing side, it's definitely faster to build up adventures and monsters are a lot easier to run. I'm not enamoured by the skill-challenges though. They're a bit too simplistic at the moment - maybe they'll become a little more complex when I get my head designing them better.

[Midgardsormr]

I had a go at MERP and was put off ICE products by the sheer mind-bending complexity of the system - but then we were only 14 at the time and D&D just fit better. Sounds like it might be worth revisiting some of their stuff from what you say.

Heh. If you thought MERP was complex, you should see Rolemaster. MERP and HARP are essentially "Rolemaster Lite." RM includes an attack table for each and every weapon you can use. None of this weenie one-handed slashing table; the fighter with the bastard sword uses the Bastard Sword Table, and the ranger with the longsword uses the Longsword Table. It's insane.

On the other hand, the level of detail and attention to source material that went into their books is almost unparalleled. I still have tons of MERP books that I consider almost as good as the canon written by Tolkien himself.

As far as 4e goes, I do agree with Tancread; it was rather silly of them not to at least manufacture minis to support the core races and the first sourcebook. Fortunately, my current group has plenty of minis from dozens of games, so we get by just fine. And when I move to Denver, I'll be using Maptool in projector mode, so the need for minis will vanish entirely.

[Steel General]

Heh. If you thought MERP was complex, you should see Rolemaster. MERP and HARP are essentially "Rolemaster Lite." RM includes an attack table for each and every weapon you can use. None of this weenie one-handed slashing table; the fighter with the bastard sword uses the Bastard Sword Table, and the ranger with the longsword uses the Longsword Table. It's insane.

On the other hand, the level of detail and attention to source material that went into their books is almost unparalleled. I still have tons of MERP books that I consider almost as good as the canon written by Tolkien himself.

We played Rolemaster (or should I say ROLLmaster ) quite abit when I still lived in Western NY, and you're right its overly complex in some ways, but the supporting products were fantastic.

[NeonKnight]

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

[industrygothica]

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

The book has the Ranger listed as a striker, for what it's worth. Though I do agree with you.

I think I'm going to like this new system (I've got the hardcovers on pre-order already, so I don't feel guilty for snagging the PDF's). The wizard took me forever to figure out, simply because I went into it looking for spell lists and per day charts, and didn't find any. When it finally clicked I was amazed at the simplicity and effectiveness. From the little I've seen, I do think that there needs to be more spell options, however; it looks like wizards may start getting a bit cookie-cutter after a while, imo.

Attacks vs. Saves are an interesting concept as well--one that I think will work well once you're used to it. There are so many different attack options for each class though, I'm afraid it may get a bit confusing at first just deciding on which to use.

In any case, I'm looking forward to playing and, more importantly, creating with the new rules. It promises to be an adventure!


-IG

[Badger]

What??? no Munchkin "role" .... What a JIP!!!