Digimundus Map (aka Sivia)

[Durakken]

So here is an update of the western continent with a new mapping of the nations. Still far from complete.

[groovey]

Looking good. However:

1. The kingdom's names are basically invisible unless you zoom in a lot. Perhaps because you're planning on adding a layer color for each area?

2. The "carved" into terrain rivers look nice for a physical map, but for a political one it might be better to "draw" them over?

[Durakken]

1. Not really zoomed in. When it is what you called zoomed in, that's it's natural dimensions. The browser shrinks it to what is acceptable for your screen ^.^ Though I take your point. I'll try to balance that a bit more.
2. I actually don't like that for any map all that much because of the scale issues. As I'm pretty sure most rivers aren't 2 km wide and that is the minimum width I can make them on that scale... But Yeah I'm working on a Political Map that more looks look yours I just have to work quick because if I don't get it done by the end of today I'll not have access to my PC for the next 3 weeks to work on it. The PC that I will have access to doesn't have photoshop nor is it capable of working at the dimensions I'm working at.

Question for people. I need some advice... If you look at the Northern Half of the map it is dominated by 2 main areas with a tiny 1 in between. These are technically 1 Empire, but politically they are treated as 3 distinct states. The 2 large states answer to the central small state, but not each other, but they are part of the same "Empire" My question then is. How would you display this? They are each taken as "individuals" politically by most other entities, but they are singular in reality... As a side note that might affect what is suggested, I will be adding Provinces to the politcal map so that each state is also shown to have several provinces or kingdoms (in the case of Empires) in them. What is the recommended way of doing that... I'm thinking a dashed line or something.

[Durakken]

Here is the current Political Map
Don't have names for Oceans or Seas yet and several of the nations have no name of the Western Continent... The Eastern Continent is pretty much empty right now.

As far as the labels... They Nation labels are readable at around 12% it's native size, but the city names require 50% I think...

edit: The top one is a jpg file and hopefully works better. I reduced the image size by half (10k px width) so while resolution is messed up a bit it's an alternative to the bottom one which is a 20k px width png file that is acting wonky and I don't know why.
The Next task for this map now is to reduce to the kingdom level btw so the next one I'll likely be uploading when I get home and able to work on it will be the League of Pinon region which is where these particular players are going to spawn in ^.^




I was going to upload a version with a hex grid overlay with each hex = 100km in diameter and a Full world texture version that I noticed I haven't yet without anything on it, but the site wouldn't let me so I gave up.

[groovey]

First of all, the political map has a nice feel already.

Sorry to insist on the labels visibility, but I downloaded the political map, have it fully expanded on my 1920x1080 screen and I can only read "THE NUMEDAN EMPIRE" without popping my eyes out from squinting, and that's on the top version with less resolution, on the second not even that.

I insist because I suppose you'd like the map to be able to be read as a whole at once without needed to zoom in. I'd say though, that even zooming in the labels don't pop up enough? However, I suck at labeling so I don't know what to suggest and would read critiques from experts with interest for my own knowledge.

If you care enough about this, perhaps more at the end once you get the important stuff done, you could post an specific thread asking for suggestions on the "How Do I" section of the forums.


About how to represent the northern empire's special condition... tough call.

First of all, for my own curiosity? How the heck did the little guys get the other 2 big areas to answer to it without being really subjected to it?

Now to the point. My opinion is, if the three are part of the same Empire, it should be obvious visually at first sight, and right now it isn't. The easiest way to represent is to make the three areas the same color, and keep the borders you have now, as long as you don't use that color for anything other area.

Result = With the color you're saying it's the same superior entity, but by keeping the same type of borders you use elsewhere to differentiate different "nations", you also indicate those three areas have a special status within that superior entity that is the empire.

Of course this wouldn't be the automatic conclusion most people would reach when looking at your map without context. But it's the best I got now. I'll try to think of something else.

I'd also eliminate the png version from the post, since the jpg does more than fine and for political maps like ours not much resoution is needed since need for detail is minimum.

When I export as jpg in PhotoShop, with the political map I select a medium quality, which is 5 in the scale, and it does more than fine, no need to mess with the image itself.

Try doing this with the maps you said the forum wouldn't let you upload, it probably was because the files were too big, and thus by reducing the exporting quality to 5 or 8 it should do.

[Durakken]

The only problem I find with what you're saying about labels is you are biasing towards your resolution, which isn't everyone's. Im working at the larger scale so I can get a sense of the world and can put things at as accurate a scale as possible. So it's big and supposed to be viewed at the high resolution and not so much the small resolution. Combine that with I'm trying to make those particulare labels not stand out much because they're supposed to go under other stuff and not interfere with them so they're faded. Numeda just happens to have a color-blend that makes it stand out where sd others make it horrible.

All in all, I'm driving at different functions and being a bit lazy so it's causing problems. Making the map for a website and readable at that size is fairly simple ^.^

The Numedan Empire is an Aristocratic Stratocratic Triarchy with each of the leaders ruling over their own territory. Much of the civilization there during the split up of the continent was nomadic with their central authority resting in Meda. When the lost access to Meda they formed a new city called Numeda with a central authority over all the people in the region. Basically they established new religious center which also became a political and economic center. The area however is pretty big and when the Ourans attacked that area the Sifans there had little in the way of protection against them which resulted in several highly militarized bands that eventually expanded and took over the given areas. The head of Numeda eventually realized that as ambition grew there would come a leader, or several, that would try to take control over Numeda. He sent out envoys to the 2 most powerful bands and proposed that they work together. Numeda was not powerful in terms of military, but as respected power culturally, economically, etc which gives the generals credibility in those areas. The 2 generals would gain that power without corrupting it. The second part of the pact was that Numeda, the political region would not grow, and they would not impinge on it. Further, to keep the generals from conflicts they agreed one general would have power over the west and other the east, divided by the central river.

This creates "the Emporer" who is the ruler of the entire empire, somewhat as a figurehead, but the areas outside of the Numedan state are ruled by 1 of 2 Generals. Any conflicts between the Generals go to the Emporer, but most conflicts are resolved between the 2 generals. This also was introduced into their religion as a divine modification as to how the area was to be ruled. The basic idea here is the same that is represented in the Yin-yan and Tao mixed and modified. Elys comes to represent the Yang aspects while Yrica comes to represent the Yin aspects. Unlike the tao and yin-yang though, it isn't thought of as there being a seed of the other in each which creates balance, rather it is the element of Sif, the third that is balance. In essence, the 3 parts of the Empire are considered very much the same way with the 2 Generals being viewed as one being the attacker and the other the defender and the such while the central Numedan state is considered the balance. As a result that tiny area is very important and powerful... largely through social and cultural manipulation.

They're a bit like the states of the US. If we look at it in that way, the Numedan Empire has 2 states and a Washington DC-like district. I guess I can then take my queue from that and use a solid, but skinnier border line, like is done with the US.

Anyways I have time before I take off to house-sit so I will problably fix the map for the smaller resolution real quick... Shouldn't be hard

Edit: Shrank the image down. to 8k px.
Didn't feel like increasing the city labels so left those off, but you can figure where they are as they're the white dots. Had to change some of the nation colors, because they're too dark for the labels. to be read with them
The top is JPG. The bottom is png with hex grid. The hex diameter is 100km. Also has city labels but not resized.

Funny thing. That hexagon grid is the thing responsible from the different format and the increase in file size. just flipping that on increased the file size to 8mb. The png was the only way to get it to 4mb.

[groovey]

I'm glad you figured out how to visually represent the situation. I tried to think of similar situations in real History to see how they're represented in maps, but I couldn't think of one.

How about the blank areas in the continent? Are they "barbars"?

And how come the 2 generals spared the regions in purple and green on the north while they expanded?

[Durakken]

I'm glad you figured out how to visually represent the situation. I tried to think of similar situations in real History to see how they're represented in maps, but I couldn't think of one.

It's a combination of situations from history.
Warlords who more or less rule the empire but bow before an Emperor is how the Japanese Shogunate was.
The triumvirate idea stems from early Rome, but it's also a part of my own personal political philosophy.
the twin empire idea is a modification on late Rome's system of having 2 empires because the size is too large for one person to control. The idea was to split the empire with 1 person to control each side but the true emperor that controlled the entire empire was 1 of the 2. This modification of having the empire split in 2 with neither side having the true emperor stabilizes the power balance so both sides are looked as equal rather than 1 being the inferior.

How about the blank areas in the continent? Are they "barbars"?

My thinking on this goes back and fort, but they are empty, sparsely inhabited, or have more nomadic tribes. All of the sifans were more nomadic up until a few hundred years ago and the only started grouping in cities because they were attacked so much in ways that they couldn't defend against as nomads. So those regions are empty or have sparse survivors and there is an even smaller chance that there are full tribes anywhere in there, but there may be a few. I'm leaving that open as need be, but even if there are they're more or less culturally derived from the 4 major cultures.

Also, it doesn't show it on the map but there is a island in the sky ^.^ I still haven't decided where to put it.

And how come the 2 generals spared the regions in purple and green on the north while they expanded?

Those regions are cold and have natural boundaries besides. Most of the Medans fled those regions, because they like warmer climates, if they wanted to. That leaves only the crazy Medans who want to be there. So the territories are not desirable and there are people that will defend it, so they just left them be.

[Durakken]

Currently focusing down on where I'm starting the adventures of the webnovel. That means developing what I called the League of Pinon. This area I'm now calling Valbeyon.

During the invasion of the Erebonians the hill and river to the north along with the peninsula to the east made this area fairly well protected and easy to defend, however it caused the area to be separated from Timer and develop culturally along a different path.

The area developed into a series of looked with 4 major powers, 2 at the land borders 1 on the peninsula, and the last in the center between the 3.

Okpor, formerly Pinon, over time, due to its naval power, became relied on and trusted to handle external matters while the centralized Miallo became the capital for internal relations even though the polies are either sovereign to themselves or one of the major powers.

Due to their cultural separation from Timer and the blessings that sun and ocean goddesses bestowed on them their religions began worshipping them rather Sit, replace her as chief deity.

The area itself is a mixed forest with oak being a major resource. Miallo is located on knoll with a large glass and is the only naturally deforested area in the region.

Relative to the rest of the world Valbeyon was safer during the 4th age and has a longer history than other areas, but only by small amount because it wasn't till the Erebonian attacks that they made permanent settlements. This makes the 3 border powers establishing themselves ~725 years ago and spreading to the rest of the area eventually settling Miallo, at the crossroads of the 3.

Soooo any input on what should happen in their history?

Also, since this doesn't really go anywhere else and if it wasn't obvious they are surrounded by or thought to be by enemies which is why they don't expand outwardly but rather inwardly.

Sent from my RCT6773W22B using Tapatalk

[groovey]

So Okpor has naval power, what for? Are they traders, pirates? If they're traders then they would have contact with other cultures so they could get some external influence culturally that could spread to the rest, specially through the cities, so the peninsula would not be totally isolated, like it sounds, at least on the coast side on the west.

So there are 4 major powers in the peninsula, and in each there are different independent poleis? How can they be independent if the peninsula is completely divided among those 4 major powers? Do you mean the poleis can be autonomous but are nominally under one of the major powers? I'm afraid I'm a bit confused on what you meant on that.

The process of religious transformation, changing the cosmology, must have been really interesting and long, I guess with lots of resistance at first like any big religious change meets before it spread and eventually became the official one. Did focus of worshipers of the old chief deity survived? Were they persecuted or are they tolerated?

It might even have caused conflict within the community where the change first happened, after all, renouncing the traditional main God, who was so for important reasons, for new ones must feel like a very dangerous bet on their afterlife for a true believer. But of course, it depends on the traits or the religion, how organized it is and how much influence and control has over their believers and the political power. If you religions is similar to how it worked it Egypt in relation to political power, I'd say said change would have met a lot of resistance.

How do the 4 major areas relate to each other? They are a ligue, so they sound like an alliance, which is a pretty superficial union usually and quite weak and prone to break after not too long, which is not your case. Do they work more like a federated state, with some common institutions to keep peace and arrange distribution of resources, but pretty autonomous, each with its own political nucleus? Or does Miallo really act as the political centre for 4 of them?

As per what should happen in their History?

Apart from the religious transformation you mentioned, which would deserve a chapter on its own, at least, if you wrote a History book about the Ligue, what seems lacking is inner conflict. Have the 4 really cohabited peacefully for 725 years?

How did they settle their borders with each other?

During such a long period, how did the balance of power shifted? Seems unlikely the four of them are equally powerful, but it's unlikely too that the stronger one would stay so forever. Makes sense that at some points one of them was stronger than the other, but the balance shifted to another, etc.

There must also be economic differences, specially for the coastal one if it does trade by sea with other powers and the other 3 areas hardly do external trade. In this case the coastal area would have an edge on the others, be the richer and the one with more resources to sustain a bigger army. That is, unless the 4 major areas are not autonomous and their resources go to a dominant power among the 4, who then redistributes the resources after keeping some to itself, making it the stronger one.

There also social conflict. Did they start already quite socially stratified so it wasn't an issue? Or did they start as tribes or chiefdoms and while they expanded and settled in the peninsula they got more socially complex? That's bound to create inner conflicts too, conflict among the better off families to rule, and possible rebellions of the lower social classes now harshly subjugated to a powerful aristocracy, trying to fight the big inequality that has settled with the new system.

So basically what I'm missing is conflict: political, religious, social, economical, etc. And also external attacks every now and then. Even though the peninsula might be a harsh shell to crack, in about 700 years surely many will have tried.


I hope my post was somewhat useful to spark some idea. I'm not as good as you in infering much from maps.