WIP - neolithic and early cultures in Maward

[Durakken]

Sounds just about perfectly plausible to me, what do you think?

Sounds about right to me... though I have no idea where you are referring cuz I don't want to figure it out ^.^

Oh, I don't think you are quite getting what I'm trying to convey with the second map (called Early Cultures).

I looked at all the maps and I was referring to the second image in post #4. This is how i'd generally place the cultures/civs... the "dark areas" are the civs... and the colored areas with a grey border are the extents of a given "culture".


Basically 7 cultures and 7 civs
The smallest by population culture would be the pinkish one
The light bluish one under it would be like the mongols
The Southern one in that vicinity would be like east coast asia. Think "Yin dynasty" China
The Kane area civ would be somewhat segmented away from the others and develop a lot like India due to that natural river border to the east and the agricultural areas dying off to the north
The green area culture I'd imagine to be some kind of weird combination of inuit and Egyptian.
The blue on to the north west of Kane it seems to me might develop into a combination of Kane and the northern yellowish culture as trade would likely pass through there.
The Yellowish culture, given it's position and such might develop like the native british culture or the gauls.

Anyways...to me, looing at it this way there is clear path that these cultures are going to take splitting from each other ...

That north/south river that is in the middle of the continent i think will cause an interesting cultural exchange where Humans will divide at the southern side of it and spread east, west or north.

The West side would be fairly protect and slowly progress west and then north.
The east side will progress east and then north, but once they get to those steppes the steppes cultures will cause the south-eastern culture to change as well as...
The North split will have cultures that are constantly under attack by the steppes cultures and so as they go north, pressed by exploration but also the danger of the steppes people they reach the point where they can go no farther north and split again which will cause this odd mix with the western cultures moving north where as those going east will likely be slaughtered or adopt more to the steppes culture...
So the cultural exchange is somewhat like 2 loops, one going counter-clockwise (the west) and one going clockwise (the east)... at least that is how i sees it.

[Pixie]

Again, thanks for the comments.

I'm now working from 4,000 BC onwards (by the way, I've been using "BP" - before present time, when I meant "BCE" - before christian era, I've noticed that)... and wow, things get complex! Introducing bronze, writing, centralized states and organized religion is messing things up already.
I'll surely produce more maps showing this, but for now I'm resorting to tables and notes... dunno how it will turn out.

In the meanwhile, I've decided to share another incomplete map about Acur, which provides some more info to compute civilization expansion. This is an ortographic projection of Acur, where the climatic regions are colored according to Azelor's style (as shown in this map).

[Ilanthar]

Both well done and interesting. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one obsessed with computing a lot of details/background, often with lot of maps and graphics .

[Durakken]

I'm now working from 4,000 BC onwards (by the way, I've been using "BP" - before present time, when I meant "BCE" - before christian era, I've noticed that)...

BC = Before Christ
BCE = I prefer Before Common Era epecially inces CE is the Common Era, not Christian Era.
I use my own calenders for things a lot times. You can use the Julian dating system to convert to a more accurate system ^.^

I'll surely produce more maps showing this, but for now I'm resorting to tables and notes... dunno how it will turn out.

I wish I was good enough to produce half the stuff you have.

and wow, things get complex! Introducing bronze, writing, centralized states

Copper Alloys you mean... Iron and Copper were already in use before Bronze and Brass and Brass seems to be much more highly prized given that Orihalcum was considered Hard in that era meaning that it was likely superior to Hardened Bronze which was superior to even the Steel they had at that time and also Orihalcum was said to be valued only second to gold, which is odd to us to think, but seemingly true. Orihalcum from what I've pieced together was likely Gunmetal (It isn't consider Bronze or Brass because Tin and Zinc are in it in equal amounts, but it probably was considered Brass back then due to how you'd have to make it...also probably why they called it Orihalcum rather than Brass or Bronze) while Abyssinian Gold (Brass with 12-16% Zinc content) was likely what was used as a base mixture for Orihalcum.

As far as writing is concerned... It seems that writing was invented around the same time as the iron age started and led to an explosion of state explansions...

Organized religion I could probably say a lot about, but it is my impression that spirituality was female driven and at some point there was some usurption of that power in the abrahamic tradition which rose to power over much of the world. Interestingly most other religions maintain female driven beliefs, but due to some quirk of the religion or history this has been forgotten. For example Amaterasu is the chief deity in shinto-ism, but this has been pretty much ignored. Gaia is pretty much the most powerful being in the Greco-roman pantheon but this is largely forgotten. I would guess this is the case because the lesser deities are more important to peoples' lives so the greater ones have less written and less worship of them which makes them more forgotten in history. We remember the sacred female today in the form of virgin sacrifices, nuns, and priestesses and hardly associate that the female divinities of those religions.

Side note: The Abrahamic tradition also has its roots with powerful upper echelon female deities which were purposely erased by what are called the YHWHists who raised their local deity above all others ^.^ Funny enough later, due to patterns within mythologies Mary, mother of Jesus, became largely deified and pushed above at least 2/3s of the trinity.

Anyways, if you're thinking of history and mythologies and such I should point out that many characters in mythology are either metaphorical stand ins for a thing or event OR actual characters and peoples that have been deified. I have this kookie hypothesis which is supported by various bits of info that the Giantomachy of the Greco-Romans is actually the story of the Greeks have a battle with the Canaanites (Isrealites) specifically part of the story of Lot and his capture.

But if you want a perspective of deities I recommend a book I just finished called, "American Gods." It's a fictional story, but it's perspective on what gods are is really rather interesting... The only detraction i have with it is that it is at points somewhat of a softcore porn and has a ton of profanity. If you can get past that it's a pretty good read.

[Pixie]

Thanks for the ideas Durakken.

One needs to try and balance detail and feasibility at all times, when doing this kind of stuff. I'll go as far as organized religion in area A is different than organized religion in area B, or even, organized religion in area C is still composed of local deities or area C has a religion with the same original myths than area A... but I won't develop into creating lore.
The same thing with metal, I've simplifying to three levels - knows copper but not metal alloys containing copper, knows copper alloys (calling them bronze for simplicity) or knows bronze and has a well developed metallurgy.

As for writing, yes, that's the key to generate larger social organizations and to centralize rule.

So I'm using these rules of thumb (just a few):
- A has bronze and B doesn't, but both share social and religious background - small territorial gains but knowledge spreads in a short time
- A has bronze and B doesn't, but backgrounds are fundamentally differenet - B gets trampled, the population may run to a different location (or becomes slaves, or be integrated), knowledge of bronze is unlikely to spread
- A has writing and B doesn't, they have same background - knowledge of writing is likely to spread, the two cultures might fuse
- A has writing and B doesn't, distinct cultural roots - knowledge only spreads if trading is heavy, A is likely to overpower or gain small territorial gains
- A has horses and B doesn't - A will trample or gain territorial gains, B will get horse herding
- A has horses and B doesn't, but cultures are alike and areas are matching in terms of power - knowledge flows fast to B
... and so on ... but trying not to be too rigid.

I've been feeling that I need to read much more about this era to get things right. So far, they feel "drafty".

[Pixie]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one obsessed with computing a lot of details/background, often with lot of maps and graphics .

obsessed... obsessed... obsessed...

[ascanius]

I cannot believe I just found this thread. Well I'm going to be rereading it in full.

[Krmp4]

What does WIP mean again?

[Durakken]

What does WIP mean again?

You must wip it. Wip it good...

or more boringly Work in Progress.

[Pixie]

I cannot believe I just found this thread.

It's surprising that you say that, because we discussed this for your world roughly around the same time. Still, better later than never

I've been working on this stuff, still, but in such short breaks that I really don't have the time to make something neat enough for show.