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Thread: Help improving cultural, genetic and ethnolinguistic maps

  1. #1

    Help Help improving cultural, genetic and ethnolinguistic maps

    I know we all want to improve fantasy maps (or real maps created from 0), but I am looking to improve some maps on archaeological cultures, which I modified based on Natural Earth free physical maps.

    I will publish a revision of the paper illustrated by these maps in one month or so, and I have been offered to publish a more detailed monograph (probably black and white, which makes things even more complicated), and I would like to have some more ideas, if possible.

    Problems I find when making the maps:

    • Transparent colours: they are supposed to let physical geography go through, but sometimes they just hide them. Some colors need to be similar (to inform of similar cultures / languages), and often, when selecting multiple colors this way, some dark tones have to be used, and keeping a good and coherent appearance overall is difficult.

    • Important locations: While culture borders can be broadly defined with colors (i.e. without a clear outline), it is individual settlements which define the actual regions, so maybe some should be marked and labelled. I can’t seem to find enough space in the maps (or the right mark for them), though: they are usually marked with points in purely archaeological maps, but in this case many would be hidden by DNA sample symbols.

    • Region borders: maps are supposed to look natural (like modern ones), but precise borders seem quite unnatural for archaeological cultures. Any idea how to make it look better with some type of (diffuse?) border, without showing a great definition that didn't actually exist…? Also, natural borders made by water bodies (especially islands) are difficult to delineate, but that is a problem of patience, I guess, unless you have some trick.

    • Lack of enough colors: with so many different cultures and language families (attested or supposed), it is difficult to keep different color ranges. Afroasiatic is black (or dark grey) for example, and luckily enough, I didn’t (yet) have to think about adding other language families, like Sino-Tibetan or Dravidian… This might change in the future, so there is a big problem with including other regions of the map.

    • DNA samples: are symbols too simple, maybe too big, not '3D enough'? I thought about adding ancient mtDNA samples, but certain regions are too crowded already… Also, admixture analysis can be shown for each of the symbols depicted (e.g. a percentage bar or pie chart instead of or over the symbol), but that could crowd still more each region.

    • Labels: Most labels are straight text and with some shadows and borders for better distinction over the background. Also, they are differentiated according to what they represent: CULTURE, Culture Group/People, Language, (DNA Sample). Would you recommend other differentiation, other effects, more curved labels…?
      Do you find some information clearly lacking on the maps?

    • Arrows: They give the actual cultural/population movements, but sometimes they are a pain to work with, arrowheads become deformed, they can’t be too long or they become less natural, etc.

    • Software: Maybe Photoshop should not be the only program I use?


    I am sure that experience will make you notice more important details than these ones, so any idea on how to improve anything on any of the maps is welcome.

    Thank you!

    (I include four of the main maps in chronological order, the rest are similar. If you are interested in checking them out, visit https://indo-european.eu/maps/)

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  2. #2
    Guild Adept Elterio Delgard's Avatar
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    Hi!

    For the colours, I would suggest you try some thick colours for the lines/borders, and then go progressively but quickly in subtle tone. Look at some maps on this website I found:L http://joxanet.tk/cise/historical-at...-east-1712.php
    Some of the maps use solide colours all long, but some, like the one on ancient middle east, use thick colours for borders then light and highly transparent in the inside.

    Its easier for the eye to look at some contrast than simply looking at a map full of solide colours.

    By the way, do you study in archaeology? Cause I do as well!
    We all wish to create, but do we really create?
    What we draw and what we write is part of us.
    No we do not create, we simply discover who we are.
    **My maps have copyrights**

  3. #3

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    Hi! Thank you for the tip.

    I am looking at old maps from your link, of the University of Texas collection, which I might have seen long ago, and most use either bold borders as you suggest, or dotted/dashed lines.

    However, with uncertain borders, even old maps don't use lines (see for example Russians and northern Africa in Europe in 1300).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    By the way, do you study in archaeology? Cause I do as well!
    Nope, I studied Medicine, but I wish I had studied more anthropological subjects...

  4. #4
    Guild Adept Elterio Delgard's Avatar
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    Mmmm.. I see what you mean. However, in that link you have posted, I see a map which is hand drawn and not made like almost google-map-like. If its google-map-like, then yes colours will eventually be an obstacle to clearly identify the geography such as elevations and mountains. However, if you do it the old style, then even with the colouring you want it could work. Just try to keep in mind that blending colours may not be easy for the viewer to know if its a SEPERATE culture or a OVERLAP from one onto the other. Ty maybe in that case either to do stripes of both for now untill you find something more old fashion.

    I do not use colours on my maps so its hard for me to give a good insight. However, if you are aiming for something archaeological then I can help with a few, not tips, but suggestions to open more doors to your imagination.

    If its a map made by those from ages long forgotten (okay, that sounds too poetic for nothing), then try to add on the map some symbols regarding heaven, may it be deities or constellations. I would see them being part of the frame, so not on the map itself. Decorations are there to witness the glory and prestige of the king/queen who asked for a map.

    A little bit less traditional. I live in Canada, where we had lots of Amerindians before us, of which most were nomads. Some were in between sedenarism and nomadism. Both had a tendency to see their territory as a circle for they would move from one area to the other depending on the season and natural ressources. For them, borders are more fluid.

    Another idea would be to have a big difference between a cultural region and political region. In the middle east, in the time of sumer and babylon, you had lots of City-state in the area of Palestine and what is known today as Israel. Those city states were often stuck between the two superpowers (south Egypte, north Hittites and Babylone afterwards). Each city state was independent and their religion did vary, but not to the point of necessarily being a wholly different culture. Another way to express it is like how would one speak french in the early Middle Age? Depending on where you were, the dialect would strongly influence you, but it was still french. Of course, in an area full of city states, some can be really different. Again, Israel was monotheistic while its neighbours where polytheistic. Maybe other people had also unique beliefs because they came from far away but we just can't find their traces. I am actually thinking of having a region with a global culture, but having lots of differences between the cities, and yet still a whole because they remain much closer to each other than to their neighbours.

    One last thing. I love ceramic and ceramic is quite useful in studying ancient civilizations. I am no expert on Chinese history, but I do remember from one of my classes seeing maps where cultural borders were drawn on the basis of ceramic style. Actually, I am hoping to a master degree on some amerindian ceramic from the middle and superior woodland period. May it be in China or America, often you can distinguish groups by their decorations, way of decorating, and shapes of their vessels. Ceramics can also be used to draw maps where culture and trade come together, where often overlaps are important and quite significant for scholars. Its like ports in the old times, when ships would dock and their crew rest for a couple of days in a city. That area would be quite diversified. I might even say more than our airports because people would stay there long enough to be in contact.

    AH! FORGOT ONE IMPORTANT THING!
    Ask yourself a few questions before choosing how to extend cultural regions and potilical areas and so on.
    1: How do YOU define a territory in our days
    2: How do you think those IN THE PAST defined it
    3: I don't know if you will be inventing or making something based on history, but how will you bring the viewer to what those in the past wanted to communicate? There is a good chance that the answer to the first question will be similar to what must of us would say, so hopefully it should give you a good start on how to show US what you want us to see ON BEHALF of those represented.
    Last edited by Elterio Delgard; 08-20-2017 at 09:36 PM.
    We all wish to create, but do we really create?
    What we draw and what we write is part of us.
    No we do not create, we simply discover who we are.
    **My maps have copyrights**

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    maybe in that case either to do stripes of both for now untill you find something more old fashion.
    Yes you are probably right, stripes and dots are the way to go, especially for black and white maps. I guess it will be a pain to transform every map though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    Some were in between sedenarism and nomadism. Both had a tendency to see their territory as a circle for they would move from one area to the other depending on the season and natural ressources. For them, borders are more fluid.
    I saw recently a thread here asking for how to draw nomadic tribes, and someone pointed to the Alïnoha map. Quite a discovery! Although I don't know if i could paint a prehistoricc map like that, without knowing the actual tribes... (with Yamna, we are approaching a point of culture/genetic lineage division, though, so maybe in a near future we can do that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    Another idea would be to have a big difference between a cultural region and political region.
    That is a good idea. I wanted to make a map of languages or peoples (or else cultures), but to draw certain political lines should be possible. I might give it a try: without changing the colors, just drawing solid political borders over color, as I did with the Avars in the map of Antiquity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    often you can distinguish groups by their decorations, way of decorating, and shapes of their vessels. Ceramics can also be used to draw maps where culture and trade come together, where often overlaps are important and quite significant for scholars.
    Yep, many groups in these maps are distinguished originally by ceramic types. I might give a try to an idea that has come to my mind reading your comment: use border patterns of the type of the pot decoration used by the culture! That could make the map more artistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elterio Delgard View Post
    2: How do you think those IN THE PAST defined it
    That's also funny. Never thought about that, maybe they saw it as a circle as you say about native populations in Canada... Sadly we can only imagine (for example the wheels of likely Proto-Indo-European speakers of Yamna might have been used figuratively as well), but I will keep my eyes open for these details.

    Thank you again!

  6. #6
    Guild Adept Elterio Delgard's Avatar
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    You don't need to know how they REALLY defined territory.

    Archaeology is excavating 0.1% of what once stood tall and proud. We will never know for sure what exactly they believed. But do try to picture yourself in their time.
    We all wish to create, but do we really create?
    What we draw and what we write is part of us.
    No we do not create, we simply discover who we are.
    **My maps have copyrights**

  7. #7
    Guild Journeyer Creativetides's Avatar
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    Wow very indepth map love it

  8. #8

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    Thank you Elterio. I will think about potential abstract representations border patterns.

    I am thinking about "3D" DNA sample representations, including admixture analysis to the data available now for Y-DNA subclade. That is, I want to associate data like this here from ancient DNA samples http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-boprzJzw7V...rk/s1600/3.jpg into a map like this one from Nature https://images.nature.com/full/natur...re17993-f1.jpg , although this one was made by sample age.

    While I was looking for these pictures, I saw that something similar has already been done. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P9BKN2ypJ-.../scythians.png.

    In my case, I want to associate a histogram shape with each subclade (as it is done now), so R1b = square (i.e. square prism in 3D), R1a = circle (i.e. cylinder in 3D), I = triangle (i.e. triangular prism in 3D), etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creativetides View Post
    Wow very indepth map love it
    Thank you very much. But in fact, time periods represented are long, so data is scarce, that's why I state "diachronic" in the maps' titles. Also, I have not taken care of sea levels and other changes to shores, especially in river deltas, and climate, vegetation, etc. for each period. So there is a lot to be done yet.

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