Warning about HP Laptops - incompatibility with Win 10 Creators Update

[Falconius]

Or, you can trade them both for Linux problems. No OS is perfect. I remember using Mac's at my university in the days where the blue screen of death was a common complaint about Windows, I always had more issues with the Mac's than I did with windows. No they didn't have a big blue screen of death, they just dropped the program dead with no warning, or they went into an endless rainbow cursor loop and you had to restart the computer yourself. That combined with other issues (hardware price and lack of options), turned me away from Macs, and I've never had reason to regret it. You can still build a hugely powerful PC for the same price you'd pay for a moderately performing Mac. Linux on the other hand I've had little experience with, but it has gotten a lot more friendly since the last time I tried it out. It seems to me like the most viable alternative.

[Mark Oliva]

Or, you can trade them both for Linux problems. No OS is perfect..

How true! Who has the biggest problems? Windows users? Mac users? LINUX users? Who knows? However, regardless of which OS one prefers, users of Windows programs such as CC3+ and FM8 will do themselves no favors by switching to a Mac or a LINUX system. FM8 users seem to get along fairly well with Windows emulations on a Mac. (There's no guarantee that'll be true with FM9, however.) It's quite a different matter with a Mac running a Windows emulation and CC3+. I worked with the Mac users on ProFantasy's official beta testers roster, and even with some refined workarounds, there are some things in CC3+ that just don't work.

But the OS is only one problem. Another problem is the tendency of a few brand-name computer manufacturers to design machines and BIOS systems that don't comply fully with the OS manufacturer's standards. Instead of doing that, they want to build a better mouse trap and then flop when a new kind of mouse comes around. Here in Germany, Siemens PCs in the late 1980s and early 1990s were delivered with Siemens' own tailor-made version of MS-DOS. Where the original MS-DOS was installed from a single floppy disc, the Siemens version came on three floppies. When Microsoft updated original MS-DOS 3.0 to 3.1, the Siemens BIOS wouldn't boot Microsoft 3.1 and there was no Siemens 3.1. Stick with 3.0, Siemens said. Nice, except that the current versions of some popular software programs that were released after the introduction of MS-DOS 3.1 wouldn't run on Siemens 3.0, although they ran on Microsoft 3.0. When MS-DOS 4.0 came out, the same thing happened all over again. (Siemens has been out of the PC business for some time now.)

In the particular case in question in this thread, the computer that had the problems came from HP. HP and Dell are two companies that also are known for brewing their own beer on Windows PCs and then becoming somewhat incompatible when either Windows itself or a 3rd party Windows program updates. After that, the new version either doesn't run quite right or not at all. After HP acquired Compaq, there were some i486 Compaq models that couldn't manage memory right anymore and crashed constantly after updating to Windows 95. The customer had only two choices: Go back to Windows 3.1 or go to the more expensive Windows NT 4.0. HP never fixed this.

[Mouse]

Thanks Straf

I'm going to leave everything exactly as is for now. It might be slow and very irritating, but at least it is still functioning. I don't want to change anything in case it just gets worse, since I only have this one computer.

I'll save up for my Mac, and I'll try not to worry about the potential for another even more deadly Win 10 update happening before I get enough money together to jump ship away from all this chaos.

[ThomasR]

Sharing my experience.

I forsook Microsoft about ten years ago. I was tired of wiping my hard drive and having a clean install every two month.

Macs are easy machines to work with IF you do not do fancy stuff. Many programs cannot be run on Macs but you still can with OS emulators and such.

My machine is a Macbook Air with 8 GB of RAM and, while I have had next to no crashing problems, it's starting to not be enough when my browser and Photoshop are running at the same time and let's be honest, the web is a reference source we use pretty often. The problem is that Apple builds machines that are hardly tweakable. If you want to upgrade the RAM, for example, it's pretty hard as every piece of hardware is glued or soldered AND sometimes, the highest and newest RAM chips are not supported by your machine (I know it can be changed but that's a hazardous procedure that requires finesse and knowledge). These days, 16 GB is the top you can get on a laptop on Macs. Another problem is the graphic chip which is, at least on my beast, 8hitty. MacBooks Pro have better ones and retina screen.

Just know that Macs are not the cure to everything. I'll add one thing, I haven't updated my OS for 4 years as I still want to keep a bit of available RAM for my softwares ... Were I a bit courageous, I'd go for Linux but I decided I never wanted to learn more computer knowledge than was strictly necessary. Apple is a good middle ground for me.

[Mouse]

The trouble, as I see it, with Microsoft is that they are TOO dynamic. Some bright young thing has a marvellous new idea, and they all jump on the band wagon and away they go. No one even stops to think about whether the most inspiring or impressive flash of inspiration is necessarily the BEST idea for ALL their users!

I've had a belly full of it now. They're quite welcome to go prancing off on the next new thing to occur to them. I just don't want to be a prisoner of theirs any more.

So - Linux... anyone willing to enlighten me about the pros and cons of Linux? What machine specs are necessary? How difficult is it to use GIMP, Krita, CC3+ etc on Linux? Is it even possible to convert an HP Laptop designed for Windows 8.1 to Linux?

[Straf]

Mouse an off-the-shelf HP laptop will almost certainly run Linux. You can check this database to see if your hardware is specifically guaranteed to run Ubuntu, for example. Ubuntu is one of many different distributions of Linux. DistroWatch have a rundown on the top distributions. Ubuntu is pretty easy for Windows users to get on with, but many people are now moving over to Mint.

If you're not sure about it you can download an iso file and create a bootable CD/DVD or memory stick to boot from. There's an option to boot into it but not install it, just to have a wee bit explore. You'll see how it interacts with your machine then.

[Mouse]

My oh my! ChickPea! I had no idea you were so 'into' all the hardware stuff - enough to build your own

I'm practically useless that way!

As it stands, the laptop needs to be taken apart for a thorough clean (I did a sort of amateur job on it a few months ago by taking the back off it and using a can of compressed air, but I wasn't brave enough to undo the screws that were holding everything together inside the machine), so I might just ask for a bit of help when I take it down to the local repair shop to have that done - help that includes me being shown how to install whichever build of Linux seems best.

LOL! I get quite irritated with my own lack of courage, but since this is the only PC I have, and I won't be able to get hold of another one for quite some time, I feel I really need someone to be watching over my shoulder and shouting stuff like "No! Don't touch that!!!" or, "Yes, that's the one I meant!"

In the meantime though, I will do as Straf and Falconius suggest and walk around this thing several times till I'm happy that I really understand what I'm about to do

[ChickPea]

Gimp, Krita, Inkscape and Blender you'll have no problems with on Linux. I find Inkscape works better on Linux than it does in Windows. Haven't noticed much difference with Gimp, except it starts much faster in Linux, but that's a minor issue.

Where you might have problems are with Windows only programs. You can often get Windows software to run in Linux using a piece of software called WINE, but not every app will work. Sometimes they get it working at some point down the road, but sometimes it never works. They 'grade' Windows apps from 'Platinum' (very good) down to garbage. It looks like CC3+ works well. They run a database here and you can search for your individual programs.

The biggest issue you might run into is getting Linux to install. Now, to be clear, the installation itself is very simple and straightforward, however laptops can be locked down with Microsoft's Secure Boot feature. I bought a Lenovo laptop a few months back, and it was a bit of a palaver to get Ubuntu installed, even though I've installed Linux a gazillion times and I knew what I was doing. I had to disable stuff in the BIOS, which wasn't difficult, but they made it hard to get into the BIOS in the first place. I usually build my own PCs and I think motherboards aimed at self-builders are much easier to work with. However, there were plenty of help articles and it wasn't too hard to figure out, but it was a little bit complicated if you're not sure what you're doing. Every manufacturer does things differently and, even with Lenovo, apparently some models were super easy to install Linux, and some more difficult. I'd do a bit of googling before you dive in.

Most people dual boot with Windows & Linux. The Linux installer will partition off an area on your hard drive and install itself there. When you turn on your machine, you'll get a little menu showing all installed OS's and you pick the one you want. One thing I should point out... when you install Linux, it installs its own bootloader (the piece of software that starts up the operating system). It has to do this because Windows won't recognise other OS's. This means if you ever decide to nuke Linux, you will have to run the Windows 'repair' program, as Windows won't start otherwise. There are many help forums filled with questions from people who have installed Linux, then decided to wipe the partition, and suddenly their machine won't start. It would be wise to create a Windows backup disc before you do anything, just in case...!

Should mention also, if you're considering a mac, that you'd have the same issues where not every piece of software is available. Additionally, not every company will allow a licence to be transferred from one platform to another. It's possible you may need to repurchase if you can't get something to run via other means.

There is a piece of (free) software called Virtual Box. It's an emulator, and allows you run other OSs from Windows. However, you might struggle with this as it can be a little more demanding on system resources (i.e. you're running Windows, which is running Virtual Box, which is running a Linux OS, which is running Krita....!) However, trying VB would at least allow you to familiarise yourself with a Linux OS, and how it installs etc. Might be worth a look.

Finally, I'm sorry you're having woes (again!) I do think Straf's advice to try a clean install is wise. Windows is notorious for not cleaning out its registry as people add and remove software, so it's certainly possible that some leftover bits and pieces from Windows 8/earlier versions of Windows 10 are exacerbating problems. But, I can also appreciate the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' approach too!

[Falconius]

Yeah, definitely look them up on distrowatch, and try and find a couple of videos reviews on the one's you are intrested in. The one that looked really nice to me and my tastes was Ubuntu Budgie, haven't tried it out yet though (the intention is to put it on my old machine, because there is no way in hell I'd pay 120 dollars for another windows key).

[ChickPea]

Yeah, definitely look them up on distrowatch, and try and find a couple of videos reviews on the one's you are intrested in. The one that looked really nice to me and my tastes was Ubuntu Budgie, haven't tried it out yet though (the intention is to put it on my old machine, because there is no way in hell I'd pay 120 dollars for another windows key).

I'm interested in Budgie too, but to be honest, I wouldn't recommend it for a new user right now. It's still relatively experimental and I've read that there are still a lot of issues to be ironed out. It's definitely one to consider for the future though.

For a brand new Linux user, I wouldn't consider anything other than Ubuntu (or Ubuntu derivative) or Mint. My personal recommendation would be Xubuntu. It's relatively light-weight and the interface will be familiar to a Windows user. If you want to go really light-weight, there's Lubuntu.

The reason I suggest an Ubuntu base system, is that there's so much help out there for the questions that a new user will inevitably have. Once you've got a couple of months usage under your belt, you can look around at other distros then, but I think it's just easier to start with the most common Linux to gain experience.

I've been using KDE Neon (based on ubuntu 16.04) and I'm loving it. I've tried various KDEs off and on for years and I don't think I ever lasted more than a week with any of them. I kept reading good things about Neon and it was supposed to be very snappy, so I installed it earlier this year and I haven't looked back. I'm really pleased with it.