Large Dungeon Near College Town

[Adfor]

I think I was referring to a couple of instances where things were described in past tense, where it should have been present tense, at least I believe so, I'm at work so I don't have time right at the moment to re-read it.

[XCali]

I wanted to add a little extra to the map pack with regarding to selling the main Adventure hook.

The writing can and probably will be changed, and can be left out completely as well for DMs to write their own warning letter on it.
Let me know what you think.

[Adfor]

Good flavor! That would look really good printed out on some 'ol fashion coffee stained and crinkled paper. Looks like you're adding multiple layers to your hook, that is always good, because eventually the players are going to have to peel those layers back to get to the core, which is a lot of fun!

[XCali]

Ah, thanks. I was hoping something like this would be nice to add to the map pack.

What I am struggling with now, is how much of the maps I need to populate with stuff, or do I just keep the chambers empty and up to DMs to populate. (I will have a version with numbers or labels for each area, so my question more in line with items, rubble or whatever throughout the chambers/caverns.)

[Adfor]

I mean, most caverns don't have much in the ways of features outside of normal cave stuff, unless something resides there. The issue here is that this cave *just* opened up, so it'd be very difficult to justify something living there that needs access to the outside world to prosper. Now if the creature is something that doesn't need sustenance, say an incorporeal creature, such as a shadow or ghost, it makes a lot more sense that it could just *be* there. This is even more true if there is only one way in, one way out, but if there is access to a network of tunnels, you could justify something that has a natural habitat of subterranean, too.

Another question, I saw you post a small map for the frozen area that looked like some form of sentient construction, what was that built for? What was its purpose when it was originally built? This may help to flesh out the dungeon a bit further, or at least give you an idea of what could possibly be within, item wise I mean, because people don't go into a construction project with no purpose behind it, that's for sure.

Like I mentioned before, pick your monsters first, even if it's just room by room, and often times what items that reside there come along with them. Being a cave, if you leave a lot of chambers empty, that is perfectly alright, most of the time they would be mostly empty anyways. I will often times throw little hidden treasures and quirky features into those rooms, just so that they aren't completely empty, and in turn, boring. Doing this will allow a lot of room for DM tweeking, while still doing a bit of room population yourself.

Hope this helps, cheers!

IR

[XCali]

I mean, most caverns don't have much in the ways of features outside of normal cave stuff, unless something resides there. The issue here is that this cave *just* opened up, so it'd be very difficult to justify something living there that needs access to the outside world to prosper. Now if the creature is something that doesn't need sustenance, say an incorporeal creature, such as a shadow or ghost, it makes a lot more sense that it could just *be* there. This is even more true if there is only one way in, one way out, but if there is access to a network of tunnels, you could justify something that has a natural habitat of subterranean, too.

Another question, I saw you post a small map for the frozen area that looked like some form of sentient construction, what was that built for? What was its purpose when it was originally built? This may help to flesh out the dungeon a bit further, or at least give you an idea of what could possibly be within, item wise I mean, because people don't go into a construction project with no purpose behind it, that's for sure.

Like I mentioned before, pick your monsters first, even if it's just room by room, and often times what items that reside there come along with them. Being a cave, if you leave a lot of chambers empty, that is perfectly alright, most of the time they would be mostly empty anyways. I will often times throw little hidden treasures and quirky features into those rooms, just so that they aren't completely empty, and in turn, boring. Doing this will allow a lot of room for DM tweeking, while still doing a bit of room population yourself.

Hope this helps, cheers!

IR

Thanks. It really does help.

I think my biggest reluctance to choosing monsters would be that I have DMing experience. I was just a player for a short while and the world was not leveled to us. We could find the worst kind of beasties in the underground or rather tame. So, even that experience does not help me one bit in thinking about this map set.

So, that probably leaves me in the position of writing what I can about the region and making this mostly empty canvas as interesting as possible, and then leaving the actual creature populating to people that know how faaaaaaaar better than I do. I hope that makes sense.

[Adfor]

It makes total sense, and it's understandable to be reluctant in this situation. You can always set a certain level range, and work off of that. Thomden did some wonderful bookmarks that operate in this way, seen here. Those bookmarks are excellent because they show how you can keep it short and sweet, but still convey the overall idea that you're trying to get across.

You can also throw level-based out the window and work purely off roleplaying. Like they say, there are many different kinds of monsters in the world, and a lot of them are not your level. "We have to fight until the end, until we're all dead if that's what it takes!" said no player ever, if the chance of running away is readily feasible. Maybe there is a baddy way beyond the level of the PC's in this dungeon, and is that unreasonable? Not at all, it will give the players something to work towards if anything else, and there is no harm or foul from the PCs waiting until they're a higher level and better equipped to handle something of that challenge rating.

[XCali]

It makes total sense, and it's understandable to be reluctant in this situation. You can always set a certain level range, and work off of that. Thomden did some wonderful bookmarks that operate in this way, seen here. Those bookmarks are excellent because they show how you can keep it short and sweet, but still convey the overall idea that you're trying to get across.

You can also throw level-based out the window and work purely off roleplaying. Like they say, there are many different kinds of monsters in the world, and a lot of them are not your level. "We have to fight until the end, until we're all dead if that's what it takes!" said no player ever, if the chance of running away is readily feasible. Maybe there is a baddy way beyond the level of the PC's in this dungeon, and is that unreasonable? Not at all, it will give the players something to work towards if anything else, and there is no harm or foul from the PCs waiting until they're a higher level and better equipped to handle something of that challenge rating.

Definitely food for thought. Thank you.

I think that second point you made is more attractive. The levels and monster difficulty is not something I can yet lean on to use on my maps. So, story is going to be the back for the time being.

That said, I started a map today for more that one reason, but now it has got me thinking of what is on the other side of this mountain with the cave. Maybe a hidden stronghold was in the mountains forgotten with time. What happened to it that it went silent in the first place. Is it whatever is causing the frost to take over the caves? The party will have to find out. Though, they might trigger an ancient beacon that sets in motion an army to to stir in the west destroying everything on its way to the stronghold, having them have to defend the peace of their town by taking a stand in the old ruins in the mountains.

### Latest WIP ###


(Hehe, the map pack is expanding. )

[Adfor]

Definitely food for thought. Thank you.

I think that second point you made is more attractive. The levels and monster difficulty is not something I can yet lean on to use on my maps. So, story is going to be the back for the time being.

That said, I started a map today for more that one reason, but now it has got me thinking of what is on the other side of this mountain with the cave. Maybe a hidden stronghold was in the mountains forgotten with time. What happened to it that it went silent in the first place. Is it whatever is causing the frost to take over the caves? The party will have to find out. Though, they might trigger an ancient beacon that sets in motion an army to to stir in the west destroying everything on its way to the stronghold, having them have to defend the peace of their town by taking a stand in the old ruins in the mountains.

### Latest WIP ###


(Hehe, the map pack is expanding. )

That sounds fun! Nothing like a mindless army marching towards a goal unwaveringly, just be careful with that type of power, players don't start facing troop-based mobs until higher levels, usually 8-10+.

[damonjynx]

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread. This is looking good Xcali. Re power levels of creatures and such, don't worry about it, let the GM's who run the adventure sort that out. I would just provide descriptions and a difficulty grade, like easy, moderate, hard or very hard. Whilst games like D&D and its derivatives are very popular there are other systems that have strong followings that don't use levels, particularly D100 games like Runequest and it's many flavours for example. If your intent is to aim the map pack specifically at the D&D market, i.e. sell it on the DM's Guild rather then the generic Drivethru RPG site, then I would strongly suggest you do some homework and properly write up the monsters. This will entail making sections of your dungeon 'level' specific. If the PC's wander into an area to high above their current level as Adfor says, they can runaway and come back when they're ready or they can stay, fight and most likely die a horribly painful death