Is that you, John Wayne? - New Member

[Nackedei1983]

Hello everybody,

my name is Sarah and I study cartography | geomedia technology at the University of Munich.
I am currently working on my bachelor thesis. In this context I would be very interested in the criteria of a (good) fantasy map or novel map in order to be able to draw further conclusions and comparisons from this information.
If anyone is interested, just get in touch

[JoshStolarz]

Welcome to the Guild Sarah! Your studies definitely sound interesting and could spawn a good conversation. I think what makes a fantasy map good or not is heavily dependent on the goals of the artist, the story they want to tell, and how effectively it was executed. But, we’re talking about art here, and we all have different opinions and tastes as to what is “good”.

- Josh

[Nackedei1983]

Welcome to the Guild Sarah! Your studies definitely sound interesting and could spawn a good conversation. I think what makes a fantasy map good or not is heavily dependent on the goals of the artist, the story they want to tell, and how effectively it was executed. But, we’re talking about art here, and we all have different opinions and tastes as to what is “good”.

- Josh

Hello and
thank you for the friendly acceptance into the guild.

You're right, we're talking about art, hence the word "good" in ().

My questions and my interest are the basic requirements for a fantasy map. For example: Are there design features or map elements that should not be missing in any fantasy map (compass rose, scale bar, etc.)? But I am also very interested in the personal feelings of individual map users and map-designers, which should not be missing on a (good) fantasy map, especially for their demands and requirements. What is particularly important to you? On what basis is the display method chosen (symbolic or pictorial, 2D or 3D) and much more.

Sarah

I would like to thank everyone in advance who might be interested in answering these "questions".

[Greason Wolfe]

Well, there are attractive maps and functional maps, so what makes a map "good" really depends on what purpose the map is serving. Suppose for instance we are talking about a city map for a novel. It can be a very artistic map that shows the entire city, but if the story takes place in only a small part of the city then it might not be the best map for the novel. Another example might be The Land from the Thomas Covenant series. It isn't the most attractive map, but it offers all the details needed for the story. Jullian May's maps for the Pliocene Exiles series is another example. There is a "world" map that shows a number of key locations without a load of extra stuff, and a few smaller, more detailed maps for locations where most of the action takes place.

That kinda brings us back to the beginning. Attractive or not, a map that fulfills the its purpose is IMHO a good map.

Hope that helps a bit.

[DrWho42]

hello sarah! welcome to the guild

[Gamerprinter]

To me a good fantasy (or any fictional) map has the criteria of any map - it must convey specific information for a defined geographic locality in a way that the reader fully understands what they're looking at. It does require a scale of some kind, whether with a bar graph for distance increments, or a square, hexagonal or other defined grid system placed on top of the map - scale and distance is important! A compass rose or some reference for direction should also be included - you need some kind of directional orientation. Beyond that it varies. Fantasy maps aren't just regions or continents with defined kingdoms, forests, mountain ranges and coastlines. I create maps of star systems, entire worlds, regions, cities, individual castle or peasants cottge - though you might consider that an architectural drawing and not a map, but we consider all depictions of some area a map. Here are five maps of mine. You could consider them anomalies or "corner case" qualifications for being a map. Every map is an illustrated graphic of some defined area and created for a specific purpose, and is accompanied with labeling information specific to that map. The purpose changes from map to map, as needed. Here are four maps of mine, each with a different purpose.

The first one looks like an illustration, though not a true isometric map - it's an isometric map, which shows scale, but not a top down view of the area. It does have an inset map with a top down, but the real purpose is to show depth from the top of the water down to the ship hull under the muck.

The second map is a regional map published in an adventure module, but the scale concerns is regarding a powerful magic item with a curse that cause those who viewed the item to need to be around it, and the further away they go from it, they take health damage, until it eventually kills them. So the purpose of this map is define how far away you're getting something an issue you need to resolve which will kill you if you don't.

The third map, you might not even classify a map, rather a floor plan. However, you see that jeweled pendant in the bottom right corner, that's a magical key that takes you to an extra-dimensional space (a defined space that exists outside our own plane of existence), so there's no need for a compass rose, there might not even be a north, south, east, west orientation inside this alternate plane of existence - there is scale and a grid, and a legend with key for the legend, so it has other map accouterments.

The fourth map is a 3D created map of a secret laboratory facility on a moon, for a sci-fi game. This is the only occupied location on an otherwise airless moon, though you can presume the top is north, but a compass rose is almost meaningless for this as well. This map includes a grid for scale, and labels denoting elevations of the rocks surrounding the facility. The facility is encircled with a defensive force shield, and this map's purpose is for an attacking military force with aerial ships and armored vehicles to attack a defended fortification - all it's labeling is placed for starship and vehicle combat mechanics.

Maps I create have different purposes, and those chosen purposes define what the map requires, which means maps can be very different depending on it's purpose.



Does that help or complicate things for you?

GP

[Default0069]

HI Sarah,

I'm still new to making maps, but I would honestly say that, in my opinion, the compass rose shouldn't be missing from a map. This is where you can really make your other artistic talents shine. I also think that you, depending on the goals of the artist as mentioned by JoshStolarz, need to have the basic structures like mountains, lakes, trees, and terrain. I, however, just like to try different techniques with these structures.

- Mike

[Nackedei1983]

Hello again :-D

I just wanted to say thank you for the answers. They give me a lot to think about!
I would be happy to receive further assessments.

Then I have to illuminate in the area of ​​video game maps (maps of game geographies) O.o
That won't be easy either because there is hardly any meaningful literature available

[Redrobes]

Video game maps have a slightly different function. They are usually a simile of the game area which is built to give the best game play. So for example, in shooters you might need plenty of cover in some places. If your game involves vehicles that go fast then it will be much bigger and if its more hand to hand combat then twisty indoor corridors is more typical.

Another aspect of game maps is that there is often a campaign mode and a free play mode. In campaign mode the game runs along a progressive story and then the playable area is often a pretty narrow path through it. The player vs player maps are more like a fanciful arena. Personally I have enjoyed the maps in Halo the best. They seem to have been well thought out for the game play and it has example of both of those type of maps.

One big exception to the rule was Skyrim where there was only a campaign mode but it was an open world. You really could start the game and then walk a long way from the starting town and end up at a place where the monsters were very much more powerful than make for good game play. Once you got to a certain level of competence you could go anywhere and gauge your foe and pick your battles. Story leads would continuously be provided and you could pick which ones you took on and had to figure of which ones to leave for a while till you got powerful enough.

Game maps also have a technical challenge associated with them too. Where here we can draw anything we want, when making game play area for video games it has to be able to be supported on the game engine. So it could be that it has a limited amount of ability to handle different height play zones or that by seeing the world from certain angles spoils the game story.

And then it could be that a realistic world is too dull for exciting game play.

Although I think there might be a lack of literature on the topic I think you would find many many maps of game areas if you searched for "walk through" to some games. Often they have the map included in the walk through along with all of the items / people / monsters / treasure etc you will find at that point.

example, Halo 3, practically a map of every level:
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Halo_3/Maps#Construct

[Nackedei1983]

Hi Guys,
I just wanted to say thank you very much again. The bachelor thesis is completed - grade 1.7

If I had had a little more time, I might have got a better grade, but the whole thing had to be processed incredibly quickly because I had a job offer.