[ProArtist] Trying to develop a new RPG publishers model...

[Gamerprinter]

I think Johnn has talked himself out of the Map-a-week scenario, as he is looking for high quality products, not volume products, so we've yet to nail down what exactly we're going to do - though we are doing something, especially related to maps. He's discovered that half the top 100 products on RPGNow involves maps - so we're on the right track, its just decided the best way to go. I'd say the first product (of whatever they decide) will be sometime next month.

I'll post updates, once they are closer to a final decision.

GP

[DevinNight]

This is an interesting idea. There are so many things to think about when you get 2 or more people working on something.. when those 2 people have never met (which may or may not be the case)
Obviously all parties involved have a love for gaming... but even with that common love there is a lot of variance on how that love translates into creative projects. The biggest hurdle I see is what happens when and if you guys disagree on what the maps have to have to make it work for a regular DnD game vs a 4E game. Obviously the idea is to be generic enough that it ok for any scenario.. but that may lead to very generic maps.. maybe not. I've played 4E for several months now and honestly I'm not sold on it.. but one thing I think that it needs to be interesting is interesting battlemaps, things that make the party approach encounters in different ways. It's not a matter of your abilities, obviously you are more than capable of making great maps. It's the difference in the game mechanics.

I'm not very good at making points.. so let me explain my background in a similar or not-similar situation.

Four Ugly Monsters was originally set up as four guys that were going to be making modules for gamers. we had 2 cartographers, 1 writer, and me (artist, token maker, minor cartographer) at the time we all enjoyed 3.5 DnD (4e hadn't even been whispered about yet) We had never worked together before forming FUM. The 1st obstacle was figuring out the name and look of our group. That alienated one guy and he quickly within 2 weeks of starting up dropped out. The remaining three started work on their first project and almost completed it before the writer lost interest and didn't finish the story... every project he started though was for his personal game and needs and he couldn't find time for other peoples ideas. Later that year he quit after the other guy got in a little flame war with another publisher. Now we were down to two.. I started making tokens for myself and he made map packs. We had a store and sold my tokens and his map packs.. My tokens sold 5-6 times more than his maps, but our pricing structure gave him and the writer for a while a percentage of the token sales. Also a certain percantage of sales went to hosting and software purchases. So while I was producing the most work, selling the most material and keeping FUM alive the writer guy was off doing his own thing and the remaining cartographer was slowly losing interest in any specific goal and just did a lot of random things. He later dropped out and I was left holding FUM and looking back at all the projects we talked about that never saw the light of day, and all the money they got from my work.

Now we were a bit younger and not as well established as the three of you. But figuring out a pricing strategy and having plans in case one guy drops out or fails to produce his part is a good idea. What label are you putting on the packages, who gets credit for the idea, How is the money collected and kept, and then divided.. I was lucky in that I was the guy with the paypal account and I decided when to pay the other guys, so that when the time came I could cut them off and all future revenues were in my hands. You'll want to know and have access to the sale numbers and the income even if you aren't the guy collecting the funds.

I know this sounds negative.. but it's not and I'm not even bitter about the above situation.. it's hard to work long distance with people. You are fortunate that these guys are established and can't just fade into the woodwork and turn their backs on the job. I expect that you will have a different experience all together. And I hope it is a successful one. If this does work.. I'll find a way to make my next endeavor work better because of it.

Looking forward to watching this progress and seeing the products.

[Gamerprinter]

Personally, I'm a 3.5/Pathfinder gamer, I've watched a 4e game once and I was not sold on it and haven't purchased any 4e material. I do think it could become an issue for me trying to develop a map that doesn't include some obvious 4e mechanic built in - if there's such a thing. I am aware that 4e is battlemap heavy (which is good for any cartographer). From a publisher's point of view I see several problems in trying to develop material for 4e.

1. The GSL, even in its latest iteration, IMO, is not something I as a publisher would ever sign or apply for. Its too restrictive, giving too much control of my product to WotC. Being quite liberated in the experience of OGL, I am skewed into thinking all licensing should fall into a more Open concept, but that's probably because I'm spoiled with the openess of OGL. I'll rely on John or Mike's licensing for our publishing concern - should work fine and keep me from obliging myself to WotC.

2. The DDi does not allow third party publishers to include any "non-core" classes, feats, spells, magic items or monsters. Since many players of 4e rely on the DDi to help build scenarios, whip out monsters and create characters, not being able to include 3pp designed content, means trying to develop any of that as a 4e 3pp is just a waste of time and money.

I would (and discussions with Johnn Four seem to agree) rather develop a quality product on a monthly basis, than a volume based scenario like a Map-a-Day/Map-a-Week. There's already several out there including the original Monte Cook's Dungeon a Day concept - no reason to be so "copy cat" in trying to duplicate someone else's success.

To me, through familiarizing myself with 4e from other forums, that which seems most lacking in 4e is a quality generic fantasy campaign setting. I know that WotC is going to or has already begun the upgrade of Athas to 4e, as well as talk regarding Ravenloft and even oriental adventures - but these are niche settings that while have a ready audience does not target the broader generic fantasy audience, which is the main stream setting. While Greyhawk is perfectly viable to fit the bill, all talk is that Greyhawk will not see the light of 4e by WotC.

Instead of developing a complete world, I'm thinking something on the lines of the Cooperative World Building Project, that is create and develop a single region, include one or two civilized sovereignties (human and elf, for example), a dwarven outpost, some enclaves of gnomes and/or halflings, have a single major trade route and a major navigable river - everything else could be some type of wilderness - high country, forested vales, swamps, a yawning chasm, perhaps a volcano.

First thing to create is the regional map and a sort of gazeteer of all the various nations, their leaders, resources and agendas, mentioning major towns (I think towns should be the largest community size, no major cities, or just one city-state) and some history, as well as relationship between nations/tribes in the region. I see offering this as a very low end or free product to help establish an audience. While I can shoot ideas, Mike Bourke and Johnn Four are the writers, so I leave the who, what and why to them - my job is to bring the where to reality in the form of maps.

Then each monthly product focuses on one nation, or one specific organization with major participation in the region. Let's say the "Green Branch Knights", who is actually a Ranger Brotherhood serving the region as defenders of the various communities living within the region. Create a map for the headquarters Ranger Lodge. Create a map for typical outpost sites, a defenseable cabin with low stockade wall, as well as a map for a cairn or cache, maintained for Rangers passing by. Also create a village in the region used/protected by the Rangers (creating one village or community per monthly publication should be mandatory.) Dealing with "favored enemies" create up to 3 lair/den/hideouts for say a bandit gang, orc enclave, and hill giants for example.

This is practically everything needed for an adventure - but we're not intending to do adventures. Rather developing a region layer by layer, with different antagonist/protagonist, a buttload of related maps and a related theme each month.

For the sandbox gaming party, the region and the localized monthly subregions would be ideal for a campaign setting. At the same time, the organizations described and the maps provided could be just as easily used "plug-and-play" into any existing setting or home brew. The lack of an adventure keeps the linear aspects up to the individual GM in how best to use the material.

I think this idea is closer to their original idea, though working within our regional setting would provide more adventure hooks and a consistency that generic places/organizations creation might not be able to provide. I'll be sending off this suggestion to John tonight.

Thoughts?

GP

PS: @Devin - thanks for the possible warning. I am a business man and have been one for over 20 years, I have and do work in a partnership situation in the Real World, I know the give and take involved. Because I am a regularly commissioned pro cartographer, I understand needing to make changes to a map to fit the overall publishers goals - I can and do bend for creative changes in maps (I'm used to that.) The not fully understanding 4e I see as my biggest weakness, but believe I can manage at Mike and Johnn's urgings on how I should best represent this or that in a map. We'll just have to see how this goes.

[DevinNight]

that's tricky.. I've always wanted really well defined smaller areas, the big picture seems to be something each Dm likes to decide for themselves, whereas everyone needs a good haunted tower that is developed well enough that the DM can drop it in his setting and create a good adventure with it. But I tend to not deal very much with politics in my games.. It could be people really want more background and political development in their worlds.

4E is kinda weird.. WOTC released a book called Dungeon Delves and all them are built using a bout 15-20 tiles. It seemed (with my cursory glance) that it would be rather boring and flavorless adventures which is in contrast to the idea they are trying to promote with the idea of these grand adventures. Also having the online stuff is great if you sign up for it.. I haven't and I'm not sure I will but I feel like I'm missing out on something important there, which I don't like that feeling.. of having stuff held back from me.

You should send your thoughts to them though, you have a lot of ideas and that is a good thing.

[Gamerprinter]

While I wouldn't want to overly delve into politics, conflicting relationships between nations, between communities, between members of one noble house interwoven into adventuring organizations within a fairly defined region creates a dynamic that compells a storyline, helps determine a plot, provides many adventure hooks and takes what might be defined as as a bland and boring adventure and elevate a notch giving it a sense of place that means a bit more than a generic location. I think that is a dynamic difficult to achieve in generic single mapped locations and one must view the bigger picture for more success. That to me is the difference between generic location versus a great adventure seed.

GP

[Gamerprinter]

Looks like Johnn has altered another requirment - now we don't have to try to build a $15 product (I thought that was trying to beat down a brick wall.) A smaller map scenario product with the goal of $5 per product, while trying to build a stockpile of similar maps, eventually these could be bundled together for a higher priced product. For now we just need to get product published to begin that stockpile.

The Assassin's Lair will still be the first product, part of a series of GM's Surprise maps, where each map contains a unique or arcane twist. The Assassin's Lair being an extra-dimensional space accessed with the Amulet of Cerene.

GP

[Gamerprinter]

So it looks like the Assassin's Amulet (my June 2009 Challenge Entry Win) will be our first product due out next month as a $5 product will feature techniques for using assassins in your game, techniques/strategies/methodologies for assassins, a look at an assassin's guild, how to hire an assassin, some specific assassin weapons/magic items/new feats and more. Since my map works as an extra-dimensional space through a magic item (amulet) - it serves as a unique plot hook, which will be one of the major aspects for all the products in the product line. Though luckily, I don't have to create a unique hook map every time, most of the hooks will be developed by the writers and not specifically the map - which takes pressure off me trying to come up with a new hook with every map. I will be creating unfurnished and variations of the map as well for wider use for any GM, any game, any system.

It will be monthly released instead of weekly - another "thank God" for that, and give the team more time to build a better product. So it looks like this is finally reaching fruition.

Final thought, I know some reading this will say, "What's unique about this publication model vs. any previuos one", well it's that the cartographer is nolonger a freelance artist per job, but an intrinsic member of the publishing team, an equal member getting an equal share of the profit.

Anyway, moving along - I'll post again when the first product is released!

GP

[Gamerprinter]

In similar vein to the above Assassin's Amulet project. I've been thinking about creating an add-on product that I'd call "Urban Pariahs". Essentially 6 to 12 atypical, urban NPCs statted for Pathfinder RPG with complete and interesting back stories, each with their own mapped locations for residences and/or typical hang-out areas. Several of these are PCs or NPCs I've used in past homebrews. Each NPC would come with tips on using them in existing campaigns, plot hooks to drop them into an adventure story.

Here's a rough on a couple of them...

Lost Druid (my favorite): a radical middle aged druid from somewhere beyond the city, once part of a small radical circle of druids bent on rallying against towns and cities, as they believe the only natural communities of humans are through living in villages. Anything larger is an affront to nature. The group had some success visiting several towns and yelling obsenities, confronting town officials complaining of their unnatural existence. Because some of the members were fairly powerful divine casters and summoners, they managed to make their point and not be arrested. Eventually armed horseman searched the local wilderness areas and drove these crazies away to prevent them from further hassling their towns.

One druid, our statted NPC, came to a large city to do his complaining, and was consequently arrested, held in the city jail and essentially forgotten. After a year or so in jail he was released, but having been quite an unstable person in the first place, being locked up in a small cell without a window or other access to the sun and the outdoors he went insane. Now he lives as a homeless wino wandering the backalleys and canals, drinking home-made Goodberry Wine. He is a friend to no one, mumbling incoherently, liable to attack anyone confronting him and running away. He does give aid to the vermin, feral animals and periodically to other less fortunate urban dwellers like runaway kids and other homeless people.

This lost druid maintains a shack amidst an abandoned building in partial ruins within the poor district of the city. He aids and shape-changes into the cities vermin - stray dogs and cats, pidgeons, rats, even fleas and cockroaches, he might have several hang-out areas all in similar disrepair.

Another would be an urban ranger, somewhat of a fantasy, medieval "gumshoe", tracking thieves, bullies, missing children, disreputable husbands, and perhaps even a serial killer or other more dangerous adversaries. He doesn't get along with the authorities, constabularies or rogue's guild leaders, though he maintains contacts from all of them. He would have a mapped seedy office located somewhere in the poorer district of the city, perhaps hanging out at a particular city tavern plying his trade as a snoop and investigator.

Paizo recently published a book containing many NPCs, but lack high level characters each with minimal backstories.

I'd like more detail, perhaps one or two higher level individuals - NPCs that any GM could drop into their campaigns as colorful encounters, contacts or even someone to combat with. Including several maps and more complete story with hooks might make for an interesting $5 PDF download - somewhat different that the main productline, but in a related fashion.

Looking at creating drop-in pieces into any existing Pathfinder game, not complete adventures and ready made to work in any city environment.

Thoughts?

GP

[Gamerprinter]

We plan to create new products each month, with free bonus material and updates, at $5 for PDF, maybe Lulu prints available as well, probably an intro discount price too. Expect cool maps, NPCs, new class, new magic items, sometimes new monsters, feats and spells, plot hooks, ideas for use. There will be opposition forces, a back story, tips, GMs advice, more. Although the products are intended as drop-in pieces and adventure elements for existing adventures and campaigns, we are really doing a world building project from the bottom up, and plan to hook all products together into the same milieu.

Every product will have a unique twist!

GP

PS: although I have to make a few tweaks and changes to the original map, and create an illustration that will either serve as an alternate cover (then the Assassin's Lair color map itself), or an interior illustration with a clue... in the last 3 days, I've written two articles for the publication, created a new Pathfinder divine assassin class, and statted/described two magic items tied to the adventure - both different versions of the Amulet of Cerene. Also will be creating an NPC urban ranger gumshoe, as a built-in opposition force to the Assassin's Guild used in the adventure element of the product.

[Gamerprinter]

Getting a better feel of their marketing ideas.

We're looking at offering the products on a subscription basis, paid month to month. Subscribers gain bonus material that purchasers of single products do not get, though they get some free content as well. Also since the project will include new classes, feats, spells, magic items, equipment, we plan to offer a "compendium" of created material, plus 40 - 60% bonus new material at the end of each year for a $14.95+ price, that is free to subscribers of 6 or more months of subscription. Maps, 3 tiered, statted NPCs and their organizations are exclusive to the monthly products, so buyers of compendium only are compelled to buy past published monthly products - with pack deals.

With my encouragement, the products will be heavily focused to Pathfinder, though will still contain stats for OGL rules.

The compendium might also include a city map and regional map of a proposed setting that includes all monthly product locations on those maps, more plot hook ideas for statted NPCs from the monthly products (must buy monthly product to get the stats, items and equipment), a theme storyline, an events calendar for the setting.

So while the products themselves, individually serve as drop-in map locations with fully developed support material and tips for running it, they are also interconnected to all other products and can be used as a standalone setting grown from the product concepts themselves. Thus targetting a whole different segment of the market.

The monthly subscription price is the same as a product purchase price which tentatively set at $5, or $4.95 a month. Subscriptions can be canceled at any time, but at least 6 months worth of subscriptions fees paid to receive the compendium as a free bonus.

It looks like a good business plan.

GP